Upgrading the A66 and A69

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Glenn A
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by Glenn A »

There is an office near Penrith on the A66, which states it is the Improvement Office for the road. I'm sure this used to be the old Llama Karma cafe.
Driving on the A66 from Scotch Corner to Penrith, improvement is desperately needed as one in three vehicles is an HGV and the S2 sections often have vehicles driving nose to tail, where cars are desperate to overtake HGVs and tractors, but can't. In an ideal world, the whole road should have been a D3M as it's the most important east-west route in England north of the M62, but this never came to pass and the road had piecemeal improvements from 1971 to 2008.
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KeithW
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

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Thomas550 wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 19:13
When you have National Highways or whatever they call themselves these days, The project will not go to plan or budget. They almost certainly won't do it in an efficient mannor. It will be over a year of useless lane closures, full closures and speed limits. There will probably be just shed loads of delays in the construction project. I'm by no means an expert in roadworks but when they did Hexham there just seemed to be months where nothing actually happened. I wouldn't wait with bated breath for an efficent improvent project
Much of the route is being built offline, this is a major upgrade in an area with extreme weather and limited access so will take more than one year, originally it was expected to take 10 years but the current plan is to do it in 5. This a road through the Pennines where you have extreme climatic conditions, high levels of traffic and few good diversions so yes it is going to take time and be messy - welcome to the real world. As an old construction worker myself I have several years experience of living in caravans with just calor gas and a solid fuel stove for light and heat and that doesn't make for comfortable living. Hopefully 45 years after my first job they will at least have electricity :)
Rob590
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by Rob590 »

Glenn A wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 16:30 There is an office near Penrith on the A66, which states it is the Improvement Office for the road. I'm sure this used to be the old Llama Karma cafe.
It is indeed the old Llama Karma cafe that's being used as the offices.
Glenn A
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by Glenn A »

Rob590 wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 21:56
Glenn A wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 16:30 There is an office near Penrith on the A66, which states it is the Improvement Office for the road. I'm sure this used to be the old Llama Karma cafe.
It is indeed the old Llama Karma cafe that's being used as the offices.
I miss that place, but there is a camel in a field near Greta Bridge, which isn't something you normally see.
If there are no problems, you can make quite good progress on the A66 from Scotch Corner to Penrith and on Monday, I completed this section in just under an hour, strong winds and wobbling HGVs over Stainmore making me slow to a more sensible 55 mph. However, last year a tractor doing 10 mph on an S2 section in North Yorkshire and some unexplained delay on the S2 to the east of the Penrith by pass added another 40 minutes to the journey, which makes the case for dualling the whole route imperative.
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

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KeithW wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 19:16
Much of the route is being built offline, this is a major upgrade in an area with extreme weather and limited access so will take more than one year, originally it was expected to take 10 years but the current plan is to do it in 5. This a road through the Pennines where you have extreme climatic conditions, high levels of traffic and few good diversions so yes it is going to take time and be messy - welcome to the real world. As an old construction worker myself I have several years experience of living in caravans with just calor gas and a solid fuel stove for light and heat and that doesn't make for comfortable living. Hopefully 45 years after my first job they will at least have electricity :)
Althought the most difficult parts have already been D2 for a long while now.
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by Glenn A »

Helvellyn wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 19:49
KeithW wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 19:16
Much of the route is being built offline, this is a major upgrade in an area with extreme weather and limited access so will take more than one year, originally it was expected to take 10 years but the current plan is to do it in 5. This a road through the Pennines where you have extreme climatic conditions, high levels of traffic and few good diversions so yes it is going to take time and be messy - welcome to the real world. As an old construction worker myself I have several years experience of living in caravans with just calor gas and a solid fuel stove for light and heat and that doesn't make for comfortable living. Hopefully 45 years after my first job they will at least have electricity :)
Althought the most difficult parts have already been D2 for a long while now.
The last part of D2 over the Pennines was finished in 1994.
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by mikehindsonevans »

We drove this route the other week from M6j44, diverting to visit Hexham (don't ask!) on our way back home from the latest monthly trip to Glasgow.

What a lovely (if slow and frustrating) drive. We came back westwards "over the edge" through Langwathby to reach the roundabouts of Penrith.
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

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mikehindsonevans wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 01:05We drove this route the other week from M6j44, diverting to visit Hexham (don't ask!) ...
Because a recent survey suggested that it is the best place in the UK to live? I saw that feature on BBC Breakfast.
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Glenn A
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by Glenn A »

Owain wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 07:41
mikehindsonevans wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 01:05We drove this route the other week from M6j44, diverting to visit Hexham (don't ask!) ...
Because a recent survey suggested that it is the best place in the UK to live? I saw that feature on BBC Breakfast.
It's slap bang between Carlisle and Newcastle. If you are driving, the A69 to the east is completely D2, making access to the A1 and Tyneside easy( I can reach the end of the A69 in about half an hour on good day). To the west, the A69 is mostly S2, but reasonably quick at certain times of the day and M6 jct 44 can be reached in 45 minutes.
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

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A milestone for the scheme as the application has been submitted to the Planning Inspectorate.

https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... e-project/
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KeithW
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by KeithW »

This is the latest update I have seen on the A66 upgrade. They are hoping for the decision for the DCO on 19 July.

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest ... 1-07-2022/
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

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KeithW wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 10:04 They are hoping for the decision for the DCO on 19 July.
To clarify, that imminent decision is only a decision to accept the proposal for examination. There is then a pre-examination stage which could typically be 3 months, then examination which is allowed 6 months. Then they have 3 months to write up and make a recommendation to the SoS, who has three months to make a decision, but as we know from other recent cases, has the power to give himself more time.

https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... e-process/
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by Glenn A »

I think the first priority would be to by pass Kirby Thore. This is the only settlement the A66 passes through and is very busy. Should someone decide they want to turn right at the pub, then the tailbacks can be long at peak times. Next surely would be to replace the section between the Appleby and Brough by passes, now reduced to 50 mph, with its bends, military vehicles and THAT cottage jutting out near the start of Brough by pass.
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

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Glenn A wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 19:26 I think the first priority would be to by pass Kirby Thore. This is the only settlement the A66 passes through and is very busy. Should someone decide they want to turn right at the pub, then the tailbacks can be long at peak times. Next surely would be to replace the section between the Appleby and Brough by passes, now reduced to 50 mph, with its bends, military vehicles and THAT cottage jutting out near the start of Brough by pass.
All of which is in the proposed scheme.
https://nationalhighways.co.uk/our-road ... s-pennine/
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

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A milestone was reached yesterday as the project has been accepted for examination by the Planning Inspectorate.
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by jackal »

Here are the links to the general arrangement drawings, running west to east:

M6 Junction 40 to Kemplay Bank https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... 20Bank.pdf
Penrith to Temple Sowerby https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... owerby.pdf
Temple Sowerby to Appleby https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... ppleby.pdf
Appleby to Brough https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... Brough.pdf
Bowes Bypass https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... Bypass.pdf
Cross Lanes to Rokeby https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... Rokeby.pdf
Stephen Bank to Carkin Moor https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... 20Moor.pdf
A1(M) J53 Scotch Corner https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... Corner.pdf

One thing I looked for was whether they'd closed reserve gaps on the older dual carriageways the new road links into. As far as I can see they have closed all reserve gaps in the general vicinity of the tie-ins, which is a lot of closed gaps. They didn't have to do that so it's good to see. There are still reserve gaps in the middle of the older sections, which I wouldn't expect them to fix with this project. Notwithstanding the substandard terminal junctions it's a well designed scheme.
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by Bryn666 »

jackal wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:09 Here are the links to the general arrangement drawings, running west to east:

M6 Junction 40 to Kemplay Bank https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... 20Bank.pdf
Penrith to Temple Sowerby https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... owerby.pdf
Temple Sowerby to Appleby https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... ppleby.pdf
Appleby to Brough https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... Brough.pdf
Bowes Bypass https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... Bypass.pdf
Cross Lanes to Rokeby https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... Rokeby.pdf
Stephen Bank to Carkin Moor https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... 20Moor.pdf
A1(M) J53 Scotch Corner https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... Corner.pdf

One thing I looked for was whether they'd closed reserve gaps on the older dual carriageways the new road links into. As far as I can see they have closed all reserve gaps in the general vicinity of the tie-ins, which is a lot of closed gaps. They didn't have to do that so it's good to see. There are still reserve gaps in the middle of the older sections, which I wouldn't expect them to fix with this project. Notwithstanding the substandard terminal junctions it's a well designed scheme.
Seems acceptable to me; in my experience M6 J40 and Scotch Corner are never massive traffic problems - it's always been the discontinuous dual carriageway that's made the A66 unpleasant. This is long overdue as a simple safety scheme, before we consider capacity.
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

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Bryn666 wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:25 Seems acceptable to me; in my experience M6 J40 and Scotch Corner are never massive traffic problems - it's always been the discontinuous dual carriageway that's made the A66 unpleasant. This is long overdue as a simple safety scheme, before we consider capacity.
I have occasionally hit long queues southbound on the M6 in summer as traffic backed up from Kemplay Bank Roundabout.
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by Glenn A »

KeithW wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 13:48
Bryn666 wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:25 Seems acceptable to me; in my experience M6 J40 and Scotch Corner are never massive traffic problems - it's always been the discontinuous dual carriageway that's made the A66 unpleasant. This is long overdue as a simple safety scheme, before we consider capacity.
I have occasionally hit long queues southbound on the M6 in summer as traffic backed up from Kemplay Bank Roundabout.
The section of the A66 that links Kemplay Bank with jct 40 of the M6 is one of the most congested due to having to meet the M6. A592, A6 and A686. You have the HGVs wanting to access the M6, local traffic for Penrith, which is an important local town, and people wanting to visit the Lakes and tourist attractions like Lowther Park.
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