Traffic lights: what countries use yellow before green?

Discussion about street lighting, road signs, traffic signals - and all other street furniture - goes here.

Moderator: Site Management Team

WHBM
Member
Posts: 9706
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 18:01
Location: London

Re: Traffic lights: what countries use yellow before green?

Post by WHBM »

It may surprise some, but in Britain until about 1970 Temporary Traffic Signals were just two-aspect, red and green, with just two heads - mirroring Stop/Go boards.
User avatar
Gareth
Member
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 19:16
Location: Liverpool
Contact:

Re: Traffic lights: what countries use yellow before green?

Post by Gareth »

You got both with and without. Here's some that do have an amber, from 1968...

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=traffic+light ... 2FCav1.jpg
User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15744
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: Traffic lights: what countries use yellow before green?

Post by Chris Bertram »

Gareth wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 20:44 You got both with and without. Here's some that do have an amber, from 1968...

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=traffic+light ... 2FCav1.jpg
There was a period of transition when both could be found.
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
WhiteBlueRed
Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2022 03:58
Location: Krasnoyarsk, Russia

Re: Traffic lights: what countries use yellow before green?

Post by WhiteBlueRed »

Gareth wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 16:18
AndyB wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 18:24 Originally it was amber alone in both directions. Thus the song my dad knew “Red means stop, yellow {sic} means wait, and green means go”
I don't think that's true. Pretty sure the earliest signals (late 1920s/30s) went red, red & amber, green, green & amber, red. I think this came from what was being done in parts of the US at the time, where the amber for both directions was one phase, so when one direction saw red & amber, the other saw green & amber*. The green & amber didn't last long here but in several other European countries, it lasted well into the second half of the century.

* - edit: realised WHBM has already described this.
That was the common sequence there before the MUTCD was written in the US.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVBi7_U ... toIndustry
User avatar
Gareth
Member
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 19:16
Location: Liverpool
Contact:

Re: Traffic lights: what countries use yellow before green?

Post by Gareth »

Much of very early UK signal design was based heavily on what the US were doing at the time. We even had some US equipment. The STOP and GO written lenses are another inheritance, although we were still putting STOP on the red lense into the 1970s, long after the US did away with lettered lenses. Since those early days, the UK has been pretty much on its own, not really paying much attention to either US or continental innovations.
pjr10th
Member
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 23:35

Re: Traffic lights: what countries use yellow before green?

Post by pjr10th »

DavidB wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 09:48
pjr10th wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 22:41 Firstly, we call it amber, not yellow or orange (as it's neither of those colours really).

Secondly, starting amber is the standard sequence in the UK, Guernsey and the Isle of Man. In Jersey and Ireland, it goes straight from red to green. I can't find any reason for this difference though, which is the bizarre bit.
I was in Jersey a couple of weeks ago and while fixed traffic lights do indeed go straight from red to green I noticed that temporary ones at road works had a starting amber. Presumably these were 'off the shelf' models from mainland UK.
Yes, I seem to remember once I stopped at ones that skipped the amber red. Not sure if that actually happened though. I presume it's a bit more tricky to remove the amber-red from a product like that rather than a fixed installation so they just don't bother.

I do wonder what would happen if one jumped the red-amber. It's illegal in the UK, but as no definition of it exists in Jersey law, a hypothetical Jersey motorist or cyclist could claim confusion. I doubt anyone's going to be prosecuting for that though.
pjr10th
Member
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 23:35

Re: Traffic lights: what countries use yellow before green?

Post by pjr10th »

Bryn666 wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 11:17 There are pros and cons.

The pros include making sure everyone is ready to go on green so there is no in built delay. This creates a con though, in that you have to add in delay to cater for the signal change; and some drivers will treat it as an invitation to move off early as other drivers will treat it as an invite to run a red as there's a delay before the other flow moves. Not a pretty outcome.

Similar arguments about signal head positioning arise from this - the French system makes it harder to 'false start' as you have to watch a repeater signal if you're up front, whereas the US farside only system makes it easier to bomb through a junction without really looking, and our dual head system ends up with 48 signal heads for a single junction.

There's no 'perfect' set up, they're all based on varying trade offs and you have to pick your poison, really.
The issue with the Jersey set up is that apart from the omission of the starting amber and the removal of the hoods (which for locals means you can take the other road's amber / all red as a starting symbol if you know the sequence, I've noticed it's much harder to do on hooded lights), the system used is exactly the same as the UK, which means that you have the longer built-in all red, which feels even longer without the amber-red.

I've noticed in the UK it can feel as though one light goes red and at the exact same moment the cars on the other approach are revving, while in Jersey you'll normally get a bit of a gap, which admittedly makes it easier for a pedestrian to cross on the gap safely.
pjr10th
Member
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 23:35

Re: Traffic lights: what countries use yellow before green?

Post by pjr10th »

I'd definitely say I prefer the UK positioning system of one on the left at the stop line and one further into the junction. It allows for a few things:
  • A distanced indication of actually where the stop line is (and if the stop line fades and the authority fails to repaint it, an accurate description of where to stop). I suppose less important in the US where most junctions are perfect crossroads.
  • The ability to see the secondary light to (a) reinforce the red / amber for a wandering motorists eye and (b) communicate the change to green for motorists further back in the queue should the primary be blocked.
  • A safety net if any of the aspects fail on either of the lights.
  • No need to crane your neck to see the signal head when stopped at it (less of a problem in countries without stop lines like France). Other options available.
  • The ability to indicate things like early cut offs and reds to vehicles waiting in the junction.
  • The ability to see what's going on in the junction for motorists on other approaches. This is also why I dislike nearside pedestrian lights, as they're faced away from the motorist.
Authorities sometimes put too many lights up unnecessarily. It should be special circumstances to put up more than 2 on a single carriageway and 3 on a dual carriageway. I'd also like to see secondaries combined for shared stop lines and separate left turns, like the Australia approach.
WhiteBlueRed
Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2022 03:58
Location: Krasnoyarsk, Russia

Re: Traffic lights: what countries use yellow before green?

Post by WhiteBlueRed »

Here in Russia, it depends on local practices. Nearside traffic lights are always required, but farside traffic lights are optional. A mini traffic light mounted under the nearside traffic light can also be used instead of farside traffic lights; this is most common in central Moscow.
In my city, overhead-mounted traffic lights are common on wide roads, with a farside traffic light behind the overhead-mounted traffic light.
I also know of one junction with 4-way traffic lights in the middle of it. https://www.google.com/maps/@56.0245348 ... 384!8i8192
User avatar
usandourvan
New Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2022 07:42

Re: Traffic lights: what countries use yellow before green?

Post by usandourvan »

Summary (updated 27.06.22, thanks @FosseWAy & @Gareth & All!)

So far : 'Red(R) -> Amber(A) -> Green(G)' in:
- All UK (i.e. Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales)
- Australia (?)
- Brazil (what other countries in South America?)
- Czech Republic
- China (all parts?)
- Germany
- Gibraltar
- Guernsey (not Jersey)
- Hong Kong
- Macau
- Poland
- The Isle of Man
- Russia (& ex USSR Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan)
- Slovakia
- Sweden
- Switzerland


Straight 'Red(R) -> Green(G)':
- Australia (@Gareth are you sure? I put it in R-A-G earlier on)
- Belgium
- Canada
- France
- Greece
- Ireland
- Italy
- Japan
- Jersey (but still some 'off the shelf' models from mainland UK -> R-A-G)
- Mexico
- Netherlands
- New Zealand
- Romania
- Singapore
- South Africa
- South Korea
- Spain (https://n332.es/can-i-drive-through-an-orange-light/)
- USA
Last edited by usandourvan on Mon Jun 27, 2022 08:56, edited 3 times in total.
Take a trip down memory lane
Traffic flow measured on 30 different 4-way junctions - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yITr127KZtQ
https://tarmacdriveways.ie
User avatar
FosseWay
Assistant Site Manager
Posts: 19621
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 22:26
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Traffic lights: what countries use yellow before green?

Post by FosseWay »

The sequence in Sweden is the same as in the UK.
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
User avatar
Gareth
Member
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 19:16
Location: Liverpool
Contact:

Re: Traffic lights: what countries use yellow before green?

Post by Gareth »

usandourvan wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 07:01 Summary:

So far : 'Red(R) -> Amber(A) -> Green(G)' in:
- All UK (i.e. Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales)
- Guernsey (not Jersey)
- the Isle of Man
- Russia
- Germany
Far more of Europe uses red & amber before green than that. All of the former USSR, for starters. Australia, Switzerland, Poland, Czech Republic & Slovakia do also.
Also Gibraltar. Furthermore afield, Hong Kong and Macau do also. I think parts of China, Africa, South Asia and South America do also (Argentina possibly?) but I couldn't give you the break down.

Romania goes straight to green, as does Greece but I'm not sure about Bulgaria, the former Yugoslavia or Albania.

Canada, the USA, Australia and New Zealand all go straight to green, as does Mexico, Japan, South Korea and Singapore.
Post Reply