East Leeds Orbital Route

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Herned
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

Post by Herned »

Chris5156 wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:19 The sign a few posts up grates on me because it’s in a category that’s one of my pet hates: map-type signs where the designer has angled every line to match its real world location, when the left and right arms could just be horizontal and the straight on arm could just be vertical. For a simple layout the odd angles offer no benefit to wayfinding, and the unusual shapes and angles actually make the whole sign harder to comprehend. Again, best of intentions, but a sign that whoever made it thought they were doing a better job than they actually were.
How any functioning human being can design that without the roundabout being centred on the sign is beyond me
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stu531
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

Post by stu531 »

Happened to be in Waterstones very briefly, and the 2023 AA road map is out. The new route of the A6120 is in it, and the old route - bar the A64 stretch - is marked as a B-road - the B6902.
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Mapper89062
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

Post by Mapper89062 »

An earlier post on this thread said that someone told them at a consultation the proposed number was B6199 - if that was indeed planned before, then it appears someone must have seen sense and realised that number exists already :o

This will I believe be only the third B6xxx number used over B6700, so it seems a little bit strange to choose it with other more 'in-zone' options available, but I'm not going to complain since it is at least correct for the zone, not a duplicate, and they didn't go with a really lazy and potentially confusing option like B6120.
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NICK 647063
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

Post by NICK 647063 »

stu531 wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 15:35 Happened to be in Waterstones very briefly, and the 2023 AA road map is out. The new route of the A6120 is in it, and the old route - bar the A64 stretch - is marked as a B-road - the B6902.
Yes the B6902 number seemed to be decided well in advance as it was mentioned in the 2017 planning documents, I saw it in the AA Road atlas which seems to be the only one that actually shows the road complete, I also like the fact now that the A64 is a complete route again! When the A64 went through Seacroft village it was fine but ever since it’s shared the ring road doing the multiplex, nicely sorts that issue out.
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

Post by NICK 647063 »

This is how it looks in the 2023 map
This is how it looks in the 2023 map
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Chris5156
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

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Mapper89062 wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 16:15This will I believe be only the third B6xxx number used over B6700, so it seems a little bit strange to choose it with other more 'in-zone' options available, but I'm not going to complain since it is at least correct for the zone, not a duplicate, and they didn't go with a really lazy and potentially confusing option like B6120.
Yes, a lot of bypassed roads get terrible numbers now - having something completely different, which is both unique and in-zone, should be something we can take for granted but it's actually quite rare and refreshing!
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

Post by NICK 647063 »

Chris5156 wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 08:39
Mapper89062 wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 16:15This will I believe be only the third B6xxx number used over B6700, so it seems a little bit strange to choose it with other more 'in-zone' options available, but I'm not going to complain since it is at least correct for the zone, not a duplicate, and they didn't go with a really lazy and potentially confusing option like B6120.
Yes, a lot of bypassed roads get terrible numbers now - having something completely different, which is both unique and in-zone, should be something we can take for granted but it's actually quite rare and refreshing!
Completely agree it’s best to have something completely different, let’s just see if it’s actually a number that appears on signs though, I noticed at the Redhall end the old ring road is simply signed “City Centre (A58)” obviously with the incorrect primary patch as the A58 is non primary! I’ve also raised the issue that at no point does it mention that the A58 has a weight limit so goods traffic should be signed City Centre (A64) down the new ELOR to the A64 junction.

As for the road number I think it’s not a bad choice as to avoid confusion, it’s quite funny as I noticed somebody put a photo of the new signs at Redhall on a local Facebook group and one woman thought it was a mistake that the A6120 was signed down the new road, it turns out herself and many others didn’t even know this was a new ring road and I’m also pretty amazed by the amount of people living on the existing ring road that weren’t aware they were getting bypassed, seriously some people have no local interest lol.
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

Post by SouthWest Philip »

NICK 647063 wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 21:18 C7CDBCE4-E4A0-4A30-BBB6-534E844C028F.jpeg
The AA has the status of the A58 wrong (it's non-primary) but interesting has shown in correctly it the past...
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

Post by NICK 647063 »

SouthWest Philip wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 13:59
NICK 647063 wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 21:18 C7CDBCE4-E4A0-4A30-BBB6-534E844C028F.jpeg
The AA has the status of the A58 wrong (it's non-primary) but interesting has shown in correctly it the past...
It’s painful the A58 situation as all the new signs on the ELOR have it as primary too! Honestly it’s like pulling teeth, I’ve flagged it up with the ELOR project team but the girl I spoke with had zero interest in what I was actually saying!
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c2R
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

Post by c2R »

Work has started on the Austhorpe interchange and MLLR (William Parkin Way). Obviously the realisation has hit that the road and last redesign of the roundabout wasn't constructed with sufficient capacity or any form of safe non motorised crossing points, so this appears to have a sticking plaster being put on it at the moment....

Part of the scheme also involves stopping up the old footpath that joins the roundabout by the M1 northbound on-slip - https://democracy.leeds.gov.uk/document ... 0Maker.pdf
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

Post by Chris5156 »

c2R wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 09:13 Work has started on the Austhorpe interchange and MLLR (William Parkin Way). Obviously the realisation has hit that the road and last redesign of the roundabout wasn't constructed with sufficient capacity or any form of safe non motorised crossing points, so this appears to have a sticking plaster being put on it at the moment....
Oh good, they’ll finish this just in time for the RIS3 scheme to start rebuilding the junction :)
Part of the scheme also involves stopping up the old footpath that joins the roundabout by the M1 northbound on-slip
That path was only ever a temporary diversion. I grew up within walking distance of here; before about 1997 you could walk an almost straight line on Barrowby Lane from the top end of Garforth to Austhorpe. Since work started to build the M1 it’s been in an almost continuous state of transition, first with all the diversions to accommodate the motorway and then for Thorpe Park. This temporary diversion has been in place for maybe a decade now, so hopefully we’re finally at the point where this path finally gets returned to permanent facilities passing in a reasonably direct line towards Austhorpe again.
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

Post by quantinghome »

c2R wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 09:13 Work has started on the Austhorpe interchange and MLLR (William Parkin Way). Obviously the realisation has hit that the road and last redesign of the roundabout wasn't constructed with sufficient capacity or any form of safe non motorised crossing points, so this appears to have a sticking plaster being put on it at the moment....
This was always the plan. The design drawings associated with the current roundabout were approved a few years ago. They showed this planned arrangement as the next phase to be undertaken when ELOR opens. It was designed with three lanes (one hatched off initially) and to allow conversion into a dumbbell arrangement to increase capacity. William Parkin Way was designed with verges to be converted into a 3rd lane for the road. Evidently (https://democracy.leeds.gov.uk/document ... er%20C.pdf) there have been some modifications to the plans in the last few months as it's now on Revision E.

The question I suppose is why bother with an interim arrangement for only a few years and then implement the widening. Why not just do the final arrangement from the off? The answer may be hinted at in the name of the clients on the drawing: https://democracy.leeds.gov.uk/document ... er%20C.pdf. The clients are the housing developers along ELOR. The current roundabout was built and paid for by the developer of The Springs as part of MLLR. Presumably they couldn't be made to pay for anything more than the work needed to create access for The Springs, and the roundabout widening is then paid for by the ELOR housing developers. I guess they would only stump up the money once ELOR or their developments had reached a certain stage in planning. It's all a bit silly but that's what comes of having system where infrastructure funding is dependent on developer contributions.
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

Post by c2R »

Oh I agree, its iterative rubbish that costs a lot more in the long run and provides a final design that nobody would ever be proud of for a higher overall cost and with more disruption to the road user.
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

Post by NICK 647063 »

They’re have to do some serious work on signage at the main J46 roundabout to prevent traffic just naturally flowing onto the existing A6120, I assume we will also have the ones that follow the sat nav too, redhall end is east as southbound traffic will naturally take the new ELOR A6120 but the other end at M1 J46 will take a bit of getting used to for some I guess.
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

Post by c2R »

NICK 647063 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 16:47 They’re have to do some serious work on signage at the main J46 roundabout to prevent traffic just naturally flowing onto the existing A6120, I assume we will also have the ones that follow the sat nav too, redhall end is east as southbound traffic will naturally take the new ELOR A6120 but the other end at M1 J46 will take a bit of getting used to for some I guess.
Well yes, heading up the n/b M1 off slip there's no lane markings or signage to indicate which lane you should be in. If you choose the middle one, you turn left instead. Also nmu provision to aid crossing the n/b link road needs to be added.
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

Post by M19 »

c2R wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 16:23 Oh I agree, its iterative rubbish that costs a lot more in the long run and provides a final design that nobody would ever be proud of for a higher overall cost and with more disruption to the road user.

The joys of housing led / dependent infrastructure provision.
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

Post by OliverH »

one thing that annoys me is the short section of A64 between the old part of the ring road and the new ELOR. at f,irst the duall 2 lane carriageway continues, then it ends at the woods, just after there is a lane gain for turning into the housing estate which continues over the junction only to drop again then at the new Through-about a lane is gained once again. In the other direction, it's very similar just, with only one lane continuing at the hosing estate junction. It was as if they originally planned the section between the two junctions to be two lanes in each direction.
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

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OliverH wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:30 one thing that annoys me is the short section of A64 between the old part of the ring road and the new ELOR. at f,irst the duall 2 lane carriageway continues, then it ends at the woods, just after there is a lane gain for turning into the housing estate which continues over the junction only to drop again then at the new Through-about a lane is gained once again. In the other direction, it's very similar just, with only one lane continuing at the hosing estate junction. It was as if they originally planned the section between the two junctions to be two lanes in each direction.
I suspect that a long term goal will be the widening of the A64 between the two, and therefore the developers of the housing estate were made to build their junction with this in mind. Similarly, it has been done with the ELOR junction (to avoid needing to rebuild it later). One day I'm sure that A64 here will be dualled too - probably using additional developer money from the construction of more car dependent housing in the area.
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

Post by NICK 647063 »

c2R wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 23:31
OliverH wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:30 one thing that annoys me is the short section of A64 between the old part of the ring road and the new ELOR. at f,irst the duall 2 lane carriageway continues, then it ends at the woods, just after there is a lane gain for turning into the housing estate which continues over the junction only to drop again then at the new Through-about a lane is gained once again. In the other direction, it's very similar just, with only one lane continuing at the hosing estate junction. It was as if they originally planned the section between the two junctions to be two lanes in each direction.
I suspect that a long term goal will be the widening of the A64 between the two, and therefore the developers of the housing estate were made to build their junction with this in mind. Similarly, it has been done with the ELOR junction (to avoid needing to rebuild it later). One day I'm sure that A64 here will be dualled too - probably using additional developer money from the construction of more car dependent housing in the area.
Also the Scholes lane A64 Junction is to be signalised through funding from the ELOR as it’s expected to put 35% more traffic on the A64 through more people choosing the A64 and development, so westbound 2 lanes will start from east of scholes lane right through to just west of ELOR, it will then drop to 1 lane until the old red lion, like you say would be a very short widening, eastbound the fact the lane drops after the new woodlands housing estate then a few metres up widens to 2 lanes for ELOR seems crazy.

Changes are also planned just east of scholes lane as a P&R is proposed with all the bus lanes along the A64 York Road into Leeds getting changed, the guided bus way is to be rebuilt as a standard bus lane for all services.

With all this building and road improvements the section of A64 from ELOR to the A1(M) really is standing out as the weak link!
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

Post by Rillington »

c2R wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 23:31
I suspect that a long term goal will be the widening of the A64 between the two, and therefore the developers of the housing estate were made to build their junction with this in mind. Similarly, it has been done with the ELOR junction (to avoid needing to rebuild it later). One day I'm sure that A64 here will be dualled too - probably using additional developer money from the construction of more car dependent housing in the area.
Any improvements to the A64 between Whinmoor and Bramham must be welcomed. I've always held the view this stretch should be dualled.
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