A1 Northumberland Dualling

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jackal
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by jackal »

KeithW wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:20
jackal wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:13
I think I prefer part B dualling to A69 dualling. The A69 has similar volumes on the SC sections, but is likely to cost far more per mile. The A66, which is somewhat comparable, is projected around £43m per mile. Admittedly I haven't dug into the safety data, though I don't think it's great on either the A1 or A69.

So I can't really fault the prioritisation in terms of progressing one dualling scheme rather than another. But one could argue that the Part B money could have been better spent at Seaton Burn and Moor Farm.
The A66 has higher traffic flow than the A1 north of Alnwick and carries a lot of HGV's. It also has some very poor junctions that produce more than its share of serious accidents. Trying to get across the A66 here is positively hair raising.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.47645 ... 384!8i8192
Sure but I was comparing A1 and A69 volumes and safety. I only mentioned the A66 as a possibly relevant £ per mile comparison for the A69 (since we don't have figures for the A69 itself).
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KeithW
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by KeithW »

jackal wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:54
Sure but I was comparing A1 and A69 volumes and safety. I only mentioned the A66 as a possibly relevant £ per mile comparison for the A69 (since we don't have figures for the A69 itself).
The A66 has some very challenging terrain but the most severe sections over Stainmore and Bowes Moor have already been dualled so I dont know how much of an indication that would be. Another factor is that on the eastern side large sections are being dualled off line and the old road left for local access.
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Chris Bertram
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by Chris Bertram »

Conekicker wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:28
Hudson80 wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 08:09 As others have suggested the upgrade of the A1 in Scotland has always been a political pawn peddled by conservative MPs in the area.

The fact of the matter is that there’s nowhere near the demand to warrant the enormous expenditure. I’ve worked on this road in recent years and beyond the improved expressway to the north, you have sections in the south that are uncharacteristically quiet for a trunk road. Areas where you could virtually lie untroubled in the middle of the carriageway for a couple of minutes without seeing a single vehicle. It’s not the case either that neighbouring routes are currently experiencing congestion or poor journey times. The A68 functions well and I believe is an equally scenic route that many people prefer to take as it’s more direct and crucially it cuts out junctions on the A720 that you’d face if heading north (or to Edinburgh) via the A1.

There are other areas of the trunk road network in the south east that would benefit massively from improvements. The forth bridges are poorly connected to the likes of the A720, a route itself which has horrendous journey times because it’s in dire need of reconfiguration at several junctions. You also have legitimate calls for bypasses of towns like Selkirk which accommodates the A7. It’s town centre is sorely incapable of handling the constant flow of HGVs that opt for that route when entering Scotland.

Talk of improving the A1 is frustrating because it’s just about politics. It’s arguably already over-engineered and there are so many others parts of the network that of far greater priority to improve.
The A75 could benefit greatly from more 2+1 sections.
The assumption is that A75 will remain a poor relation since (apart from the relatively low volumes of local traffic) it mainly serves freight traffic from the port of Cairnryan heading for England, and is therefore not important to the Scottish economy. Also that part of Scotland doesn't tend to vote for the SNP, though I'm sure that's pure coincidence.
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andypins
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by andypins »

A303Chris wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 08:44 The decision to widening the A1 between Morpeth and Ellingham has now been put back to December 2022 by the SoS.

Call me cynic but there are rumours of an election next year, lets delay a good news story to as close as possible to an election.
I think you are spot on - very disappointed this is dragging on - not disputing other roads need attention but this bit needs done !
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by Glenn A »

KeithW wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:20
jackal wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:13
I think I prefer part B dualling to A69 dualling. The A69 has similar volumes on the SC sections, but is likely to cost far more per mile. The A66, which is somewhat comparable, is projected around £43m per mile. Admittedly I haven't dug into the safety data, though I don't think it's great on either the A1 or A69.

So I can't really fault the prioritisation in terms of progressing one dualling scheme rather than another. But one could argue that the Part B money could have been better spent at Seaton Burn and Moor Farm.
The A66 has higher traffic flow than the A1 north of Alnwick and carries a lot of HGV's. It also has some very poor junctions that produce more than its share of serious accidents. Trying to get across the A66 here is positively hair raising.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.47645 ... 384!8i8192
I would estimate one in three vehicles on the A66 is an HGV and the road passes through some arduous terrain that can close in winter. The A1 runs more or less at sea level and while winters in Northumberland can be cold, there are few of the blizzards and rainstorms that blight the A66 for a large part of the year. Even if the weather is good at Scotch Corner in summer, it can change once you reach Bowes Moor. Also the A66 lacks an alternative route.
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KeithW
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by KeithW »

Glenn A wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 18:20
I would estimate one in three vehicles on the A66 is an HGV and the road passes through some arduous terrain that can close in winter. The A1 runs more or less at sea level and while winters in Northumberland can be cold, there are few of the blizzards and rainstorms that blight the A66 for a large part of the year. Even if the weather is good at Scotch Corner in summer, it can change once you reach Bowes Moor. Also the A66 lacks an alternative route.
The Romans noticed that 2000 years ago , what is now the A66 was the Winter Road while the road from Barnard Castle via Alston was the Summer Road and the B6318 was the Military Road
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by Glenn A »

KeithW wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 21:05
Glenn A wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 18:20
I would estimate one in three vehicles on the A66 is an HGV and the road passes through some arduous terrain that can close in winter. The A1 runs more or less at sea level and while winters in Northumberland can be cold, there are few of the blizzards and rainstorms that blight the A66 for a large part of the year. Even if the weather is good at Scotch Corner in summer, it can change once you reach Bowes Moor. Also the A66 lacks an alternative route.
The Romans noticed that 2000 years ago , what is now the A66 was the Winter Road while the road from Barnard Castle via Alston was the Summer Road and the B6318 was the Military Road
I wouldn't say the B6277 is much fun in winter as it passes through some challenging terrain, then if you are heading to the Wall from Alston, there is the A686 or A689, which can be " interesting" in bad weather.
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

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Glenn A wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 18:28 I wouldn't say the B6277 is much fun in winter as it passes through some challenging terrain, then if you are heading to the Wall from Alston, there is the A686 or A689, which can be " interesting" in bad weather.
I can testify to that, having driven it in dark, snowy conditions making full use of the snow poles to guide my way....!
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KeithW
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by KeithW »

Glenn A wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 18:28
I wouldn't say the B6277 is much fun in winter as it passes through some challenging terrain, then if you are heading to the Wall from Alston, there is the A686 or A689, which can be " interesting" in bad weather.
Which is why it was called the Summer Road !

I know both roads quite well as routes from Teesside to Carlisle and equally importantly when not to use them :)
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by Mark Hewitt »

KeithW wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 21:05 B6318 was the Military Road
That famous Roman, Field Marhshall Wade.
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KeithW
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by KeithW »

Mark Hewitt wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 11:26
KeithW wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 21:05 B6318 was the Military Road
That famous Roman, Field Marhshall Wade.
Wade improved it so as to suitable for the transport of artillery and supply wagons, built a new section from Twice Brewed to Greenhead and then built the extension into Dumfriesshire. Modern archaeologists are horrified by his widening and reinforcement of parts the old Roman Road although I suppose we could criticise the Romans for shoddy workmanship :)

Here is an extract from the 1751 act which authorised it.
A Survey of the Country between Newcastle and Carlisle
Representing the several present Roads and the Tract which is
proposed for the New intended Road of communication between
these Towns. As also all the Course of the Roman Wall with all
the Military Stations, Castella and Military Ways that lye upon
this Survey.
And this part discusses the diversion
At Chesters it returns for a brief spell to the line of the Wall but
thereafter follows the Vallum to the point where Wall and
Vallum sharply diverge about a mile east of Shield on the
Wall. The proposed line, turning south-west, advances
independently for some four miles to High Shield when for
another mile and a quarter it is superimposed once more
upon the Vallum. Not far west of Twice Brewed, however,
New projected road and Vallum part company, the former
following the line of the modern B6318 to Greenhead
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by mbeatts »

In regards to the A1 Morpeth to Ellingham upgrade scheme, “a decision has been made by National Highways to terminate any future works on this scheme at the current time.”
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by NICK 647063 »

mbeatts wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 20:01 In regards to the A1 Morpeth to Ellingham upgrade scheme, “a decision has been made by National Highways to terminate any future works on this scheme at the current time.”
Let’s hope that true then the money can be used on schemes that are actually needed now!
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by Herned »

mbeatts wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 20:01 In regards to the A1 Morpeth to Ellingham upgrade scheme, “a decision has been made by National Highways to terminate any future works on this scheme at the current time.”
What is the source of this quote please?
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by Rob590 »

Seems to be here, a construction-industry website.
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by andypins »

NICK 647063 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 20:26
mbeatts wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 20:01 In regards to the A1 Morpeth to Ellingham upgrade scheme, “a decision has been made by National Highways to terminate any future works on this scheme at the current time.”
Let’s hope that true then the money can be used on schemes that are actually needed now!
not sure that will how the news will be received locally!
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by KeithW »

mbeatts wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 20:01 In regards to the A1 Morpeth to Ellingham upgrade scheme, “a decision has been made by National Highways to terminate any future works on this scheme at the current time.”
What was said was actually
https://nationalhighways.co.uk/our-roads/yorkshire-and-north-east/a1-morpeth-to-ellingham-dualling/ wrote: 06 June 2022
Development Consent Order (DCO) process update, June 2022
The Secretary of State has asked for more time to consider our proposals for upgrading the A1 between Morpeth and Ellingham in Northumberland.

We remain confident that our proposals will provide much needed additional capacity, with better connectivity for people and business, and safer journeys for everyone, and we remain committed to delivering these improvements upon receiving a positive decision on the DCO.

The DCO decision is now due on or before 5 December 2022.
see also
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2 ... oEllingham
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jackal
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by jackal »

Rob590 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 09:58 Seems to be here, a construction-industry website.
Indeed - seems that no more work can be done while Shapps 'dithers' over the DCO.
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by Herned »

jackal wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:30 Indeed - seems that no more work can be done while Shapps 'dithers' over the DCO.
Where "dithers" means "makes double sure everything is completely watertight in light of the Stonehenge judicial review". Which is not really the fault of Shapps
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jackal
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by jackal »

Herned wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:06
jackal wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:30 Indeed - seems that no more work can be done while Shapps 'dithers' over the DCO.
Where "dithers" means "makes double sure everything is completely watertight in light of the Stonehenge judicial review". Which is not really the fault of Shapps
Indeed - the quotation marks indicate that this is a phrase used in the article rather than my editorialising. Apparently the CO2 information now being requested by the SoS scheme-by-scheme will in the future be part of the basic DCO template.
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