End of the road for Mellor signals?

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Gareth
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by Gareth »

They can't be that elderly, considering they've got nearside pedestrian displays. Liverpool's got Mellors dating back to the 1980s at least.
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by Nathan_A_RF »

When were the last ones produced? Has anyone found what could be the youngest Mellors?
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by Rambo »

Gareth wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 00:44 They can't be that elderly, considering they've got nearside pedestrian displays. Liverpool's got Mellors dating back to the 1980s at least.
Didn't spot that. Not sure how old they are but i've seen late 90's Mellors in a lot better nick than these.
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traffic-light-man
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by traffic-light-man »

Gareth wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 00:44 They can't be that elderly, considering they've got nearside pedestrian displays. Liverpool's got Mellors dating back to the 1980s at least.
By that logic, these installed in 1976 can't be from 1976...
Nathan_A_RF wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:42 When were the last ones produced? Has anyone found what could be the youngest Mellors?
The youngest Mellors will have been in an area using Traffic Systems CoOp I would suspect, given they were the last company to still supply and install them, well into the late 2000s. I think these were probably some of the last ones I'm aware of that were installed as a full set, particularly around these ways. They must've been pretty much new on the 2009 GSV, but were then replaced themselves when the shared use footway was built along the busway a few years ago.
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by hburden »

I'd expect these to be gone within a few years if not sooner, as there are lots of public realm improvements taking place surrounding it, including an entire roundabout re-working and cycle lane installation.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.74374 ... 384!8i8192

It's a very well used crossing. Not many left in the BCP area although I do spot the odd one.
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by traffic-light-man »

ARTSM have recently released a statement regarding the impending halogen lamp obsolescence. The general trend away from halogen lamps in most sectors has meant that many manufacturers of these lamps are simply stopping the production of the type used in UK traffic signals, and to add some more pressure, two of the primary sources of the gas used in the lamps are Ukraine and Russia.

While I know authorities with halogen stock will already be aware that halogen lamps are on their way out (having already been given a stay of execution) and will likely have some sort of LED upgrade programme, I think this will probably press the issue a bit further, particularly with the possibility that the lamps will rapidly disappear from the market for reasons other than the legal position.

I suspect this will hurry up the removal of remaining Mellor lanterns across the country somewhat. While there's still an awful lot of halogen kit still in place in certain areas, I think Mellors (and probably Microsense MSHes, come to think of it) will unfortunately be at the top of the hit lists for being the least retrofit friendly.
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by traffic-light-man »

Dave908 wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 15:35 What I think are now the oldest set of Mellors in the St Helens borough here (I may be wrong with this though) are due to be replaced as part of a cycle infrastructure scheme.
Saw this refurb for the first time the other day. 'Cycle infrastructure' is pushing it, it's essentially the same as it was but they've given it all-round Toucans and off-side duplicate primaries.

I also realised the other day that this set belongs to St Helens. I'd originally thought it was Knowsley's, but looking at the border, I think it's St Helens'. St Helens is included in the LCR LED upgrade scheme, so the remaining 7 (?) Mellor sets will bite the dust as part of that, as will the remaining Microsense MSH stock.

Knowsley hasn't got too many left now, either, come to think of it. Probably 10-15 sets including peds. They'll go with the LCR scheme as well, of course.
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by Dave908 »

traffic-light-man wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 18:37
Dave908 wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 15:35 What I think are now the oldest set of Mellors in the St Helens borough here (I may be wrong with this though) are due to be replaced as part of a cycle infrastructure scheme.
Saw this refurb for the first time the other day. 'Cycle infrastructure' is pushing it, it's essentially the same as it was but they've given it all-round Toucans and off-side duplicate primaries.

I also realised the other day that this set belongs to St Helens. I'd originally thought it was Knowsley's, but looking at the border, I think it's St Helens'. St Helens is included in the LCR LED upgrade scheme, so the remaining 7 (?) Mellor sets will bite the dust as part of that, as will the remaining Microsense MSH stock.

Knowsley hasn't got too many left now, either, come to think of it. Probably 10-15 sets including peds. They'll go with the LCR scheme as well, of course.
I was under the impression the additional cycle infrastructure would be put in as part of the refurb. But now I'm thinking it may be going in once the Bull and Dog roundabout conversion to a Cyclops junction is complete(?) We'll see. I'm often lurking around that end of St Helens so I'll report back.
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by Rambo »

There are some Mellors still going strong at Winnington bridge on the A533, Northwich.
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L.J.D
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by L.J.D »

Not pure mellor but i noticed this double Mellor pelican site last year had detection equipment added to it. Baffled as to why ? I'm yet to see if it still behaves like a pelican or has been changed. I can't see why they'd bother adding new equipment to such ancient looking equipment looks like the controller has been changed too! But heads and poles kept

Same thing happened here also. Controller changed to a new one yet all they did is change the units to LED and kept the scruffy looking boards on and poles. Very odd. Why go to all the effort of changing controller and leaving in scruffy aged equipment.
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by traffic-light-man »

L.J.D wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2023 22:24 Not pure mellor but i noticed this double Mellor pelican site last year had detection equipment added to it. Baffled as to why ? I'm yet to see if it still behaves like a pelican or has been changed. I can't see why they'd bother adding new equipment to such ancient looking equipment looks like the controller has been changed too! But heads and poles kept

Same thing happened here also. Controller changed to a new one yet all they did is change the units to LED and kept the scruffy looking boards on and poles. Very odd. Why go to all the effort of changing controller and leaving in scruffy aged equipment.
Here's and example of the same thing.

This one was the result of a failed controller which required replacing. Depending on your interpretation of TSRGD 2016 (I personally don't think it's even open to interpretation, but I think some folks do...), installing a new Pelican controller shouldn't be happening now, as there's an option to have something that looks like a Pelican but isn't - afterall, the only thing making it a Pelican (nowadays) is the controller's programmed sequence. In this instance, it has been converted to a Pedex, and the on-crossing detectors have been added to extend the blackout period in place of the flashing amber/green man.

If it's unforseen circumstances and not part of a scheme, both time and money often have a huge part to play which most likely will limit what you can do.

I'm not sure if that's what's happened in your example, but it looks like it could be a reasonable explanation.
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by L.J.D »

traffic-light-man wrote: Wed Oct 11, 2023 17:38 If it's unforseen circumstances and not part of a scheme, both time and money often have a huge part to play which most likely will limit what you can do.

I'm not sure if that's what's happened in your example, but it looks like it could be a reasonable explanation.
That makes more sense as to why its happened then. Thanks! Also if you look at this view you can see one side is off and the other side is on which is very odd! So perhaps controller failure was an issue there and on the other site too with them both been double crossings.
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by ReissOmari »

L.J.D wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2023 22:24 Not pure mellor but i noticed this double Mellor pelican site last year had detection equipment added to it. Baffled as to why ? I'm yet to see if it still behaves like a pelican or has been changed. I can't see why they'd bother adding new equipment to such ancient looking equipment looks like the controller has been changed too! But heads and poles kept

Same thing happened here also. Controller changed to a new one yet all they did is change the units to LED and kept the scruffy looking boards on and poles. Very odd. Why go to all the effort of changing controller and leaving in scruffy aged equipment.
There's a set here in Birmingham that got the same treatment, used to have flashing ambers but now have an extended black out phase, no other equipment was changed or replaced but the sensors. It's quite a busy area with shops etc so makes sense to have these here, however, the signals on all other approaches were fully replaced with new equipment.
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by L.J.D »

ReissOmari wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2023 12:15 There's a set here in Birmingham that got the same treatment, used to have flashing ambers but now have an extended black out phase, no other equipment was changed or replaced but the sensors. It's quite a busy area with shops etc so makes sense to have these here, however, the signals on all other approaches were fully replaced with new equipment.
Suppose at least there they've replaced the boards so it doesn't look as old. I wish councils would maintain the boards better because just changing those can make an installation look less aged. Though it looks like one of the red vehicle signals has been missing a hood since 2015 there though I don't know why because I'm pretty sure I read on here that modern hoods can be fitted to Mellor heads.
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