Roundabouts where people in correct lane are forced out by people not moving to the left.

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Greg07
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Roundabouts where people in correct lane are forced out by people not moving to the left.

Post by Greg07 »

One of the joys of driving. Being in the correct lane on a roundabout only to be forced out by someone in the incorrect lane not moving to the left and shoving into you whilst believing they are correct and it is you who is wrong. Sometimes forcing you to go around the roundabout again.

So, where are your top locations for this to happen? Here are my top three. ( All links are to google street view)

M4 Eastbound to A34 Southbound.

The roundabout lanes are like this: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.45363 ... 8192?hl=en

There are two lanes for A34 South, yet round the next corner this happens:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.45349 ... 8192?hl=en

Nearly every time when I have been in the right hand lane signed “A34” I have been forced out by someone in the left lane marked “A34 Services” who has not moved to the left and has cut into my path as they move from the left A34 lane to the right one.

M11 Junction 8. leaving Birchanger Green services to go South down M11.

Only the right hand lane here is for M11, the two left ones are Not for the M11

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.87255 ... 8192?hl=en

Yet nearly every time, when aiming from the right hand lane in picture above, for the left hand “M11 South” lane shown below, one is pushed out if it by people from the non M11 lanes moving into it.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.87204 ... 8192?hl=en

M5 Junction 19, going from Southbound M5 to A369 then turning right at next junction

The lane markings and signposting from M5 clearly shows the Left lane is for the A369, the middle lane for Portishead:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.47676 ... 8192?hl=en

Yet as is clearly shown by the blue car in the google street view picture below, many cars take the Portishead lane then seem to assume they have a right to force out of the way, those correctly in the A369 lane who are trying to gain the right hand side of the A369 to taken the immediate right turn out of the way

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.47640 ... 8192?hl=en



Better lane marking can sometimes but not always correct this problem, which used to be also prevalent when going from A3 Northbound to M25 Eastbound but was largely fixed by improved lane markings, same for the junction in Portsmouth going North from Hope street on to the start of the A3 dual carriageway, everyone used to cut in here but better lane markings have largely prevented it

So, which is your (un) favourite roundabout where people in the incorrect lanes cut in to those in the correct ones? What can be done?
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Re: Roundabouts where people in correct lane are forced out by people not moving to the left.

Post by Phil »

(1) Ensure the lane markings are regularly repainted and visible - too many of these huge multi lane roundabouts have worn road markings. One of the worst I ever encountered was the one in Basingstoke just off the M3 were virtually none of the markings were visible a few years ago. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.26364 ... 384!8i8192

(2) Ensure plenty of signage - FAR to may of the huge multi-lane roundabouts lack anything other than the most rudimentary signage! You need LARGE (so its not hidden by HGVs) 'get in lane' style signage for each tiny bit of road EVERY bit of road not relying on road markings (which are often faded or which get blocked by traffic at busy times). e.g. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.08649 ... 384!8i8192 and https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.08703 ... 384!8i8192

(3) Provide those lines of square markings to help guide vehicles between lanes as each lane spins to the outside as you go round the roundabout. e.g. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.12546 ... 384!8i8192
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solocle
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Re: Roundabouts where people in correct lane are forced out by people not moving to the left.

Post by solocle »

Incorrectly marked here - https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.73915 ... 8192?hl=en

Try heading for Wimborne. The left "Wimborne" lane suddenly becomes Dorchester A35!
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JammyDodge
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Re: Roundabouts where people in correct lane are forced out by people not moving to the left.

Post by JammyDodge »

My biggest regular is here
Always have to watch lane 2 as both go right - it really needs arrows

Another good one that is brand new is West Moor
Heading on the A189 North from Newcastle, the sign approaching states Lane 1 Left - Lane 2 Straight. The markings are Lane 1 Left - Lane 2 Left/Straight
Heading on the A189 South towards Newcastle, The markings state that Lane 1 Left/Straight - Lane 2 Straight. Fine. Then on the roundabout after the 1st exit, Lane 1 Straight - Lane 2 Straight/Right - Lane 3 Right. But the lane markings and arrows don't match, as only Lane 3 goes right when following the lines
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M4Simon
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Re: Roundabouts where people in correct lane are forced out by people not moving to the left.

Post by M4Simon »

Oldings roundabout (A1(M)) junction 4. Coming south off the A1(M) to take the A1001 towards Hatfield, you should be in the right lane, but there are plenty who take the left lane. This is actually a right turn even though both the slip road and the A1001 run largely from north to south. The number of cars (it is always cars) that take the left lane on the slip road and continue around the outside of the roundabout past a two lane exit to the A6129 (north) and a two lane exit to the A414 (east towards Hertford) then continue around the outside edge to exit onto the A1000.

This causes a problem on two counts - if I'm heading east onto the A414, perhaps to head to Tesco, I need to be in the right hand lane on the off slip, but there is often a numpty in the left lane who cuts across to stay on the roundabout. Slightly less of a problem for me is if I want to take the A1001. I want to pass the A414 exit in the right lane, then move left into the left hand lane past the A414 entry. Again, there is often another car wanting the A1001 in the left lane who prevents me from moving left. There is a two lane exit to the A1001, but it almost immediately merges into one lane.

This is partly a function of the shape of the roundabout and the number of entry lanes. I know (because the designer told me) that the reason it is not round is because it was built on a large embankment and therefore, to save money, it was squashed into an oval. There are destination markings on the southbound off-slip, but these are not as visible as they could be, particularly at busy times.

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c2R
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Re: Roundabouts where people in correct lane are forced out by people not moving to the left.

Post by c2R »

M4Simon wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 06:48 Oldings roundabout (A1(M)) junction 4. Coming south off the A1(M) to take the A1001 towards Hatfield, you should be in the right lane, but there are plenty who take the left lane. This is actually a right turn even though both the slip road and the A1001 run largely from north to south. The number of cars (it is always cars) that take the left lane on the slip road and continue around the outside of the roundabout past a two lane exit to the A6129 (north) and a two lane exit to the A414 (east towards Hertford) then continue around the outside edge to exit onto the A1000.
Worse is coming north on the A1(M) and trying to head east towards Hertford - for some reason going across the bridge the left hand lane is marked as A6219 (only) which then splits into two for that. the right hand lane is signed for A414 and A1001, which also splits into two. I know traffic flows change throughout the day, but it would make most sense for A414 to be accessed from both lanes as it is the strategic traffic route here. Obviously you then end up with a mess when traffic attempts to get in the correct lane to exit.

Another in a similar location is the London Colney roundabout, which has sufficient lanes, but some people ignore the markings when heading on the A414 westbound, and end up trying to exit the roundabout from lane 3 at the diverge point.
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tom66
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Re: Roundabouts where people in correct lane are forced out by people not moving to the left.

Post by tom66 »

Related matter - Terrible design for the A10 - A14 roundabout in Cambridge.

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.2369499 ... 384!8i8192

If you want to join the A14W you need to be in the third lane from the LHS, which then splits just as it reaches the next set of lights

Consequences of this include:
- Many people mistakingly or deliberately join the second lane from LHS instead as markings are faded and you can skip in front of traffic, then they sit in L2 with their indicator flashing waiting to be let in
- The tiny left hand split usually queues up into the A1309 lane blocking that. This would be avoided if the lane was dedicated on the subsequent junction properly rather than splitting at the last moment - it would give much more queuing space.
- You can be easily sideswiped by someone in L2 going straight into A14W lane, so you have to be very carefully checking your mirror and blindspot here, whilst trying to negotiate with other traffic - a dangerous combination
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Re: Roundabouts where people in correct lane are forced out by people not moving to the left.

Post by jedikiah »

Junction 9 of the M40 Southbound to the A34 also has issues.

The off-slip. The markings are a bit faded but all three lanes are for the A34, and there is a sign to that effect beforehand.

Similarly on the roundabout immediately before turning to the A34, the three lanes are still marked for the A34 (and the third one now also for M40 N). The third lane carries on a short distance down the A34 before merging in.

Yet there is almost always lot of lane changing that goes on at this point, 2 into 1, 3 into 2 etc rather than simply staying in the lane initially picked. Lane 3 can have trouble if there is a backup of people using it for the M40N though.
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Re: Roundabouts where people in correct lane are forced out by people not moving to the left.

Post by kiran_mk2 »

tom66 wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 09:55 Related matter - Terrible design for the A10 - A14 roundabout in Cambridge.

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.2369499 ... 384!8i8192

If you want to join the A14W you need to be in the third lane from the LHS, which then splits just as it reaches the next set of lights

Consequences of this include:
- Many people mistakingly or deliberately join the second lane from LHS instead as markings are faded and you can skip in front of traffic, then they sit in L2 with their indicator flashing waiting to be let in
- The tiny left hand split usually queues up into the A1309 lane blocking that. This would be avoided if the lane was dedicated on the subsequent junction properly rather than splitting at the last moment - it would give much more queuing space.
- You can be easily sideswiped by someone in L2 going straight into A14W lane, so you have to be very carefully checking your mirror and blindspot here, whilst trying to negotiate with other traffic - a dangerous combination
In addition to the issue of trying to get onto the A14W, if you look at the road heading off to the left (A1309 into Cambridge) you can see that the lane markings seem to stop. They, don't but just become really faint. The wider left hand lane opens up to lane 1 which becomes the left hand turn towards Cambridge North Station and lane 2 which is the lane to go into Cambridge. The narrower right hand lane becomes lane 3 and eventually opens up into two lanes for the Science park. To head into Cambridge, the correct thing to do is exit the roundabout in the wider left land and then bare right into lane 2 as that lane splits, but many people exit the roundabout in the narrower right land and then sweep across to lane 2 without signalling. All could be solved just by repainting the faded line markings for 10 metres past the exit...

Also on the A14 is the Swavesy turning when travelling west.

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.2738553 ... 384!8i8192

As can be seen, both lanes clearly state they are for the A1307 and the roundabout sign clearly shows that getting to the A1307 involves turning right at the roundabout. There are two lanes exiting the roundabout when turning right (one is for the A1307 heading west and one is for the A1307 heading east). However, lots of people move to the right lane approaching the roundabout and then proceed to swing to the left lane when exiting the roundabout (normally without signalling). I'm not sure the new road marking standard of showing a straight on arrow to indicate a right exit from the roundabout is helping (do they actually think putting a right arrow on the road would make people literally turn right and go the wrong way around the roundabout?)
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the cheesecake man
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Re: Roundabouts where people in correct lane are forced out by people not moving to the left.

Post by the cheesecake man »

Technically the opposite of the situation requested (ie people moving to the left when they shouldn't) but the same in principle ie bad lane discipline at roundabout-type junctions and/or poor markings/signage.

Granville Square: left lane only to turn left for the A61 south towards Chesterfield, either lane to go straight on to the Inner Ring Road. However when you get there it isn't at all clear hence many turn left from the right lane. :read: So if you want to go straight on ignore the markings and stick to the right lane.
deadly
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Re: Roundabouts where people in correct lane are forced out by people not moving to the left.

Post by deadly »

A500/A34 Talke roundabout.

The signs and wording painted on the road say that both lanes heading northbound are for A34 North.

However, when you get to the exit, the centre line guides the 2nd lane around the roundabout.

This obviously causes conflict:
- Picture one, where a Volvo is using lane 1 to continue around the roundabout.
- Picture two, where a Civic is using lane 2 to exit the roundabout.

I reported this to National Highways, but they've not responded.
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Re: Roundabouts where people in correct lane are forced out by people not moving to the left.

Post by jabbaboy »

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.00978 ... 384!8i8192

Not a big fan of the new Silverlink markings here. Quite often bother with people heading towards the A1058(E) being in the A19(S) lane as it's very sharp. Not sure why it's not just marked as 3 lanes rather than 4 tbh it wouldn't lose any capacity considering there's space for one car for the A1058(E) max without it blocking the A19(S) anyway and A19 traffic will never use the A19(S) either way.
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Re: Roundabouts where people in correct lane are forced out by people not moving to the left.

Post by Fenlander »

This is a roundabout where people in the correct lane are forced out by people who do move to the left.

Peppermint Junction, A17 Holbeach. Classic T-junction roundabout but both lanes on entry are marked as right turn and while there are 2 lanes on exit they very quickly turn into 1. What frequently happens is the right lane right turners go around and exit into the LH lane, cutting off those who are correctly using the LH lane to turn right.
Many HGV drivers now use the LH lane to allow faster moving traffic to go past on the right.
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Re: Roundabouts where people in correct lane are forced out by people not moving to the left.

Post by multiraider2 »

I must confess to some naughty roundabout behaviour on Sunday. M25 headed for the tunnel was jamming back all the way to the M20 at J3. So I bailed there and went cross country to the A296 to get on the A282 at J1B. The road was queuing to get on before the Princes Road Interchange, but at this point the bus lane ends and I took a chance I could pull a fast one as I always do at M5 J29 exit.

Sure enough the near stationary traffic was all around the roundabout. So I sailed down to it and took the middle lane here round the middle lane here and then failing to take the A225 exit sailed round to here in the inside. Let one grateful driver out before moving into the gap between the keep clear bit and down the slip road, albeit slowly there. I used my mirrors/careful observation to make sure no-one was going to side swipe me, but frankly they were stationary all round the roundabout on the offside lane.
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Re: Roundabouts where people in correct lane are forced out by people not moving to the left.

Post by wallmeerkat »

Almondvale, Livingston https://www.google.com/maps/@55.8784392 ... 384!8i8192

On approach from the east, the left lane should be used for the immediately left retail park, with the middle lane then becoming the left lane and so on

But what used to happen was that traffic on the 3 lanes would move onto the 3 lanes on the roundabout, ignoring the retail park lane drop. Though thankfully on streetview it looks like lane discipline has improved.
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Re: Roundabouts where people in correct lane are forced out by people not moving to the left.

Post by Ishtaria1980 »

This is one where people move to the left incorrectly forcing people out. M25/A3 Wisley, the bloody thing! Coming south on the A3, wanting to head onto the M25 C/W, lanes 2 and 3 on the slip road are the ones you use. For some reason when congestion starts to build up, as you pass the entry slip for the A3 S/B, those who were in lane 3 move across to the left leaving those who were in lane 2 with nowhere to go and you end up with a zipper situation in the middle of an already congested roundabout 🤦🏻‍♂️

Completely unnecessary as the entry slip for the M25 C/W is 2 lane.
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danfw194
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Re: Roundabouts where people in correct lane are forced out by people not moving to the left.

Post by danfw194 »

This one I drive very often is always a pain. Not because of the road design, but because of poor and lazy driving. The two right-hand lanes can both be used for heading northbound on A46. However, without fail, there is always someone in the left of those two lanes that does not follow their lane as it take the curve of the roundabout, they just plough straight on and across into the right hand lane. I have had numerous near misses with me in the right hand lane being encroached.
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Barkstar
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Re: Roundabouts where people in correct lane are forced out by people not moving to the left.

Post by Barkstar »

There seems to be a couple of fundamentals going on here - I nominate M60 Denton Island and M60 jct 27 Portwood RA as regulars around here.

Firstly when it come to RAs capacity = confusion. Secondly it is in theory right to place lane instructions on the road as it's where we are looking. Gantries are okay at a bit of distance but take our eyes off the road at potentially tricky moments. Thing is if the road is relatively quiet, so we can actually see the road markings, if we have to change lanes unexpectedly it may be less of an issue. And when it's busy and being in the wrong lane is more of a problem we can't see the markings. This of course assumes the markings are actually legible.

But even if there was a solution to these problems - and I can't really see one - there will still be the inattentive, the selfish and the bully to contend with.
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Re: Roundabouts where people in correct lane are forced out by people not moving to the left.

Post by wallmeerkat »

Maybe I was being inattentive I don't know. I don't know the area well other than generally where things are relative to the motorway - Trafford Park, Manchester, to M60 - Lostock Circle

And what happened to me is what looks like happens on streetview:

I want onto the M60 northbound, which is turning right, so I took the rightmost lane as per this SEAT taxi - https://www.google.com/maps/@53.45766,- ... 92!5m1!1e4

Lane 1 drops, Lane 2 should become the new inside lane, outside lane becomes lanes 2-4

Except this happened what is happening here the white Mercedes in lane 2 strayed over the line to the new lane 2 - https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4576475 ... 92!5m1!1e4

I was stuck in the position of the silver taxi - https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4577007 ... 92!5m1!1e4

Except it was a busy Sunday afternoon and the good people of Manchester chose not to be kind to this lost driver, I was about to commit to turn right to do another lap of the roundabout when eventually the lights were going amber and I was able to make it into lane 2 of the onslip ( as taxi does https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4579343 ... 92!5m1!1e4 )

Satellite view shows what should've happened - https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4577091 ... e3!5m1!1e4
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Re: Roundabouts where people in correct lane are forced out by people not moving to the left.

Post by Duple »

deadly wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 08:18 A500/A34 Talke roundabout.

The signs and wording painted on the road say that both lanes heading northbound are for A34 North.

However, when you get to the exit, the centre line guides the 2nd lane around the roundabout.

This obviously causes conflict:
- Picture one, where a Volvo is using lane 1 to continue around the roundabout.
- Picture two, where a Civic is using lane 2 to exit the roundabout.

I reported this to National Highways, but they've not responded.

This is a personal bug bear of mine also (being local I use it regularly) - it always makes me chuckle because we are always taught about the clock when learning to drive, so logic would say, keep in the right lane when exiting the A500 - I have seen many angry folk force themselves in that gap on the exit, they should really open it up so traffic heading towards Kidsgrove 'keeps right' and local traffic for Talke stays left as you can get quite a bit of congestion sometimes.
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