A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by Big L »

Aren’t new trees better for the environment than ancient ones? Consume more carbon and produce more oxygen?

Suppose it depends on what you do with the wood you’ve cut down, of course.
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by RichardEvans67 »

by SteveA30 » Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:24

It looks as if the slip road could pass to the left of the tree but, perhaps there are planning issues involved. I assume this is looking eastwards.
I assume that would have needed more land. So then we would probably have road protesters complaining about unnecessary land take :|.
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by RichardEvans67 »

by Big L » Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:04

Aren’t new trees better for the environment than ancient ones? Consume more carbon and produce more oxygen?
Somebody on Facebook claimed that most of the new trees planted die. That sounds suspicious to me, although I don't know enough to rule it out.
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by fras »

You can always rely on Chris Packham to turn up ! With him on site, I am immediately suspicious.
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by RichardEvans67 »

I was wondering exactly where this is. The article says the Slip road goes to Hazelgrove Prep School. I'm still trying to work out where that is.

I also watched the video looking for clues, and was a bit surprised that a protester said they only found out about this 2 weeks ago!! Typical! There presumably must have been public consultations over several years. So they could have done some research to discover this issue a long time ago, and raised it before the DCO application. Perhaps getting the scheme adjusted when it was still legally possible.
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by c2R »

RichardEvans67 wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 08:16
by Big L » Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:04

Aren’t new trees better for the environment than ancient ones? Consume more carbon and produce more oxygen?
Somebody on Facebook claimed that most of the new trees planted die. That sounds suspicious to me, although I don't know enough to rule it out.
It might be true from a statistical point of view, however, it's very clear on schemes like the A10 in Hertfordshire that enough survive to provide the desired amount of tree cover:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.8386892 ... 384!8i8192

I suspect that far more are planted than are expected to survive. Additionally, I'd heard in the past on schemes that fast growing trees are planted alongside slower growing native species, so that immediate cover is provided. I'm not quite sure what management this entails, or whether it is self managing.
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by RichardEvans67 »

Comparing the picture in the article to Google Earth, and some not very detailed plans I have.

I think the site you can just about see near the top of the picture, (a bit left of centre), is the McDonald's, by the Sparkford Roundabout. You can't see the roundabout clearly, but it would be to the left, and what the picture shows could well be part of the roundabout. You can also see a road connecting to the top of it, but the resolution is not good enough to make out whether this is the existing D2. I'll assume it is, and that this is the Sparkford Roundabout.

The picture also appears to show some bridge construction, to the lower right of McDonalds (above the tree). On the plans there is a bridge taking a new local route under the new D2. So I assume this is that bridge.

The picture shows the tree below that bridge, a tiny bit left of the line. The plans show the new link road towards Hazelgrove Prep school very close to that bridge. I think the tree looks a bit too far away to actually be in the way of this link road. When they say the tree is in the way of the slip road going to the School, perhaps they actually mean a local link road (The one that then goes under the bridge). The Eastbound off slip connects to that road. The tree doesn't appear to be right on the line of this road, but it is very close. Perhaps the tree is too close to make things safe, or perhaps it would affect a cutting or embankment.

If I'm right about this, then changing the alignment of the road to avoid the tree would have meant lots of changes to other new local roads. Quite possibly needing a significant redesign of the junction, perhaps with significantly more land take. I don't know whether that would be feasible, but if the protestors had raised this during the consultations, then the designers could have tried.

Edit:
Thinking some more. If they went further to the right of the tree, there would hardly be any angle between the underbridge and the D2. So that probably isn't feasible. Unless they moved the bridge a lot further west needing quite a bit of redesigning the junction. If they went left of the tree, that would take the road further from the D2, increasing the land take. Also perhaps ending up having to move the Eastbound off slip further west, causing even more land take.
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by RichardEvans67 »

The tree was felled a few days ago.

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/som ... et-7406585
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by KeithW »

c2R wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 07:38
It might be true from a statistical point of view, however, it's very clear on schemes like the A10 in Hertfordshire that enough survive to provide the desired amount of tree cover:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.8386892 ... 384!8i8192

I suspect that far more are planted than are expected to survive. Additionally, I'd heard in the past on schemes that fast growing trees are planted alongside slower growing native species, so that immediate cover is provided. I'm not quite sure what management this entails, or whether it is self managing.
As I recall the forestry commission expect a 30%-40% survival rate but that is for saplings in nursery areas, for roadside seedlings its apparently in the 5% to 20% range and of course the soil and rainfall make a big difference. The A1198/B1040 Papworth bypass was planted when it opened circa 2007 and its not doing too badly.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.24368 ... 8192?hl=en

The trees were intended to reduce the noise to the houses on the north eastern side of the road and plants for ground cover were along the verges.

The new alignment of the A428 near Cambourne got the same treatment.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.22409 ... 8192?hl=en
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by WHBM »

KeithW wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 13:37
As I recall the forestry commission expect a 30%-40% survival rate but that is for saplings in nursery areas, for roadside seedlings its apparently in the 5% to 20% range and of course the soil and rainfall make a big difference. The A1198/B1040 Papworth bypass was planted when it opened circa 2007 and its not doing too badly.
We used to (Glasgow motorways) plant various types, whips (9p each in the 1970s, in bulk) were overplanted to still give desired cover after you lost a good proportion. Semi-matures (about £25 even then, came on their own lorry) had been developed in a nursery. Rowans (alias Mountain Ash, red berries) were the most hardy and favoured, while for the semi-matures Flowering Cherries (white spring flowers) were popular.

Our landscape architect did a tremendous scheme (it was part of his final Masters submission) for a planting plan at a key node, with explanation of the different species, and why, and just before graduating was able to oversee the planting. Subsequently I always looked out for and admired the scheme when passing through. Very annoyingly, in more recent times, when fully mature, it has been hacked about and ruined, just because some current maintainer thinks it is "wrong" to have any non-native species around, so all the lovely ones in that category were felled to suit this fetish.
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by Vierwielen »

RichardEvans67 wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 08:16
by Big L » Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:04

Aren’t new trees better for the environment than ancient ones? Consume more carbon and produce more oxygen?
Somebody on Facebook claimed that most of the new trees planted die. That sounds suspicious to me, although I don't know enough to rule it out.
Probably true. The Council has a sweet chestnut tree which is hard against our property. Every years I pull out many saplings from my garden and rake up hundreds of chestnuts. Nature expects to loose a large proportion of its seedlings, so if they are planted sufficiently close to each other that 50% need to be pruned anyway, then those that don't survive are covered.
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by A320Driver »

The Texaco filling station on the A303 is closing from 12th October. A shame as the fuel was always cheap, and it marks an almost half distance on my journeys to Cornwall.
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by hoagy_ytfc »

RichardEvans67 wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 08:16 Somebody on Facebook claimed that most of the new trees planted die…
Typical Facebook accuracy. The actual death rate is 100%
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by RichardEvans67 »

by hoagy_ytfc » Tue Sep 27, 2022 09:14

Typical Facebook accuracy. The actual death rate is 100%
Well yes, everything does eventually lol.

Although I suspect they meant they die within a few years. That might or might not be true, but I expect they account for that when deciding how many trees to plant.
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by Keiji »

RichardEvans67 wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:17The tree was felled a few days ago.
Good.
37,000 signatures on their petition! What a bunch of sillies. Considering that:
RichardEvans67 wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 07:30I [...] was a bit surprised that a protester said they only found out about this 2 weeks ago!! Typical! There presumably must have been public consultations over several years. So they could have done some research to discover this issue a long time ago, and raised it before the DCO application. Perhaps getting the scheme adjusted when it was still legally possible.
Clearly just looking for something to make a fuss about.
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by A303Chris »

A320Driver wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 08:32 The Texaco filling station on the A303 is closing from 12th October. A shame as the fuel was always cheap, and it marks an almost half distance on my journeys to Cornwall.
I assume the independent dinner, next door, will also go next . I presume the Esso, Costa and McDonalds will survive as it will be signed as services of the main carriageway
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by SteveA30 »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8dwg4bs1vI Westbound also in my Channel.

This would have made more sense than the Video thread. A303 Sparkford to Podimore and return, Friday Sept 23. Should have done it before work started as much has changed. Still, it will be unrecognisable in about a years time.

Fairly free flowing westbound, slower eastbound. Choc Ices will be available in the interval.

Windscreen wiper gets in the way. I had to mount the camera on Blue Tack, with an OS map stuck to it , then the camera on more Blue Tack on the map, as the wipers blocked the view completely before. Perhaps a re-run, with 2 OS maps instead of 1 propping up the camera.
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by Norfolktolancashire »

SteveA30 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 23:16 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8dwg4bs1vI Westbound also in my Channel.

This would have made more sense than the Video thread. A303 Sparkford to Podimore and return, Friday Sept 23. Should have done it before work started as much has changed. Still, it will be unrecognisable in about a years time.

Fairly free flowing westbound, slower eastbound. Choc Ices will be available in the interval.

Windscreen wiper gets in the way. I had to mount the camera on Blue Tack, with an OS map stuck to it , then the camera on more Blue Tack on the map, as the wipers blocked the view completely before. Perhaps a re-run, with 2 OS maps instead of 1 propping up the camera.
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There is a lot of earthworks since I passed that way in January, good job it is well on the way now the economy isn't so good!

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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by SteveA30 »

I bet you say that to all the cars...... :oops:
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Re: A303 Sparkford to Ilchester

Post by Norfolktolancashire »

SteveA30 wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 14:37 I bet you say that to all the cars...... :oops:
:laugh:
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