M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

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brummie_rob
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Posts: 1538
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 00:16

Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by brummie_rob »

Hurrah, apparently it is back to 70mph today, but at lunchtime it was certainly still running at 60! A long four years is over!
I’m writing to inform you that today we lifted the final restriction on the major
motorway upgrade on the M6 between junctions 13 at Stafford and 15 near
Newcastle under Lyme and Stoke on Trent.
If you’ve been using the road recently, you’ll know that a new fourth lane was opened
earlier this year. Drivers were kept at a lower maximum speed limit of 60mph while we
calibrated the technology which detects stopped vehicles. Our testing shows the
system is performing satisfactorily so we have increased the maximum speed to the
national speed limit of 70mph.
In taking forward the Transport Committee’s recommendations, £390m has been
allocated to design and build more than 150 additional emergency areas during the
second Road Investment Strategy, on all lane running motorways in operation and
construction. A decision on whether to retrofit across the remainder of all lane-running
smart motorways will be considered as part of the formulation of the third Road
Investment Strategy, based on evidence of safety benefits.
The M6 J13-15 is the first smart motorway upgrade to open with additional emergency
areas – five in addition to the originally planned 21 – to give drivers more places to
stop in an emergency. Drivers will be able to use one of 26 emergency areas if they
need to stop in an emergency, with a place to stop or leave the motorway every 0.99
miles on average.
All motorways, with or without a hard shoulder, are designed and operated with
drivers in mind, to be easy and straightforward to drive on. On motorways where the
hard shoulder has been converted to a traffic lane, there’s a whole system of interrelated features, working together to help keep traffic moving safely. They include:
• variable speed limits to help keep traffic moving, reducing frustrating stop-start
traffic and making journeys quicker
• clearly signed and orange-coloured emergency areas set back from the road
and with telephones linking directly to our control rooms
Nick Wells
Project Sponsor
National Highways
2 Colmore Square
Birmingham
B4 6BN
11 August 2022
• detection systems to monitor traffic for changes in flows and speeds
• CCTV cameras that our operators are able to move and zoom to monitor and
manage congestion and incidents, where notified. The system has the ability
to see 100% of the carriageway
• signs and signals to provide better information, and that can alert drivers to
hazards ahead and display Red X signals to close lanes to other traffic when
a stopped vehicle is identified
• enforcement cameras to deter the minority who break speed limits and ignore
Red X signals
To further enhance safety, on all lane running smart motorways we are continuing to
roll out technology which will allow us to detect stopped vehicles. The stopped vehicle
detection (SVD) system automatically identifies stopped vehicles and provides an alert
to our control rooms. Our operators can then close lanes with a Red X signal, display
speed limits and deploy traffic officers.
The system of inter-related features is all overseen and joined up by our dedicated
National Highways teams, both in control rooms and on road, who are here to help
24 hours a day, 365 days a year.
We’d like to thank you for your co-operation and understanding while this work was
carried out. Please note that we’ll be returning to carry out some final activities, such
as carriageway strengthening work, however we will aim to cause minimum
disruption. We’ll share the details on our website when they are available.
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Big L
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by Big L »

70 both ways?
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KILLER KNIGHT
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Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2022 14:59

Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by KILLER KNIGHT »

brummie_rob wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 12:04 It's interesting they talk about calibration of the new SVD for the 60 limit, however from what I've seen so far where it has been retrospectively added to schemes such as the M62 and M6 J11a-J13 there has been no speed reductions for 'testing'.

Nevertheless it was the first holiday getaway on Friday where there was no 20 minute queue from J12-J13 because of the lane drop so that is a positive.
It was 60mph for a bit. When I travelled to B’ham once, it was there. Not sure for how long as it wasn’t there the next time which was no more than a few weeks.
KILLER KNIGHT
Member
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2022 14:59

Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by KILLER KNIGHT »

Big L wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 19:16 70 both ways?
Bruh. It’s just the southbound. 🤦🏻‍♂️ I’ve checked CCTV cameras and that’s what I was shocked to find out.
fras
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Posts: 3590
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 18:34

Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by fras »

brummie_rob wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 16:58 Hurrah, apparently it is back to 70mph today, but at lunchtime it was certainly still running at 60! A long four years is over!
I’m writing to inform you that today we lifted the final restriction on the major
motorway upgrade on the M6 between junctions 13 at Stafford and 15 near
Newcastle under Lyme and Stoke on Trent.
If you’ve been using the road recently, you’ll know that a new fourth lane was opened
earlier this year. Drivers were kept at a lower maximum speed limit of 60mph while we
calibrated the technology which detects stopped vehicles. Our testing shows the
system is performing satisfactorily so we have increased the maximum speed to the
national speed limit of 70mph.
In taking forward the Transport Committee’s recommendations, £390m has been
allocated to design and build more than 150 additional emergency areas during the
second Road Investment Strategy, on all lane running motorways in operation and
construction. A decision on whether to retrofit across the remainder of all lane-running
smart motorways will be considered as part of the formulation of the third Road
Investment Strategy, based on evidence of safety benefits.
The M6 J13-15 is the first smart motorway upgrade to open with additional emergency
areas – five in addition to the originally planned 21 – to give drivers more places to
stop in an emergency. Drivers will be able to use one of 26 emergency areas if they
need to stop in an emergency, with a place to stop or leave the motorway every 0.99
miles on average.
All motorways, with or without a hard shoulder, are designed and operated with
drivers in mind, to be easy and straightforward to drive on. On motorways where the
hard shoulder has been converted to a traffic lane, there’s a whole system of interrelated features, working together to help keep traffic moving safely. They include:
• variable speed limits to help keep traffic moving, reducing frustrating stop-start
traffic and making journeys quicker
• clearly signed and orange-coloured emergency areas set back from the road
and with telephones linking directly to our control rooms
Nick Wells
Project Sponsor
National Highways
2 Colmore Square
Birmingham
B4 6BN
11 August 2022
• detection systems to monitor traffic for changes in flows and speeds
• CCTV cameras that our operators are able to move and zoom to monitor and
manage congestion and incidents, where notified. The system has the ability
to see 100% of the carriageway
• signs and signals to provide better information, and that can alert drivers to
hazards ahead and display Red X signals to close lanes to other traffic when
a stopped vehicle is identified
• enforcement cameras to deter the minority who break speed limits and ignore
Red X signals
To further enhance safety, on all lane running smart motorways we are continuing to
roll out technology which will allow us to detect stopped vehicles. The stopped vehicle
detection (SVD) system automatically identifies stopped vehicles and provides an alert
to our control rooms. Our operators can then close lanes with a Red X signal, display
speed limits and deploy traffic officers.
The system of inter-related features is all overseen and joined up by our dedicated
National Highways teams, both in control rooms and on road, who are here to help
24 hours a day, 365 days a year.
We’d like to thank you for your co-operation and understanding while this work was
carried out. Please note that we’ll be returning to carry out some final activities, such
as carriageway strengthening work, however we will aim to cause minimum
disruption. We’ll share the details on our website when they are available.
Can this be the result of me complaining about the very lengthy period the 60mph limit has been imposed without apparent cause ? There is a sign about halfway through the restricted section that says the limit is for systems testing. I emailed a complaint on Monday and suggested they sack the "systems testing" team and get a new team that is rather more proactive.

Frankly the M6 is a complete disgrace at the moment for anybody wanting to make reasonable progress. No doubt Jns 15-16 will be the next section to be "upgraded". There is also the never-ending 50 mph limit between Jns 21a and 26, and the never-ending disruption at Jn 10

Many decades ago, Patrick Hutber, the City Editor of the Daily Telegraph postulated "Hutbers Law", which was - "All announcements of improvement are actually of deterioration". Readers were invited to send in examples. Most letters were on the lines of "We are improving our customer service and facilities. Unfortunately....."
KILLER KNIGHT
Member
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2022 14:59

Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by KILLER KNIGHT »

fras wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 00:16
brummie_rob wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 16:58 Hurrah, apparently it is back to 70mph today, but at lunchtime it was certainly still running at 60! A long four years is over!
I’m writing to inform you that today we lifted the final restriction on the major
motorway upgrade on the M6 between junctions 13 at Stafford and 15 near
Newcastle under Lyme and Stoke on Trent.
If you’ve been using the road recently, you’ll know that a new fourth lane was opened
earlier this year. Drivers were kept at a lower maximum speed limit of 60mph while we
calibrated the technology which detects stopped vehicles. Our testing shows the
system is performing satisfactorily so we have increased the maximum speed to the
national speed limit of 70mph.
In taking forward the Transport Committee’s recommendations, £390m has been
allocated to design and build more than 150 additional emergency areas during the
second Road Investment Strategy, on all lane running motorways in operation and
construction. A decision on whether to retrofit across the remainder of all lane-running
smart motorways will be considered as part of the formulation of the third Road
Investment Strategy, based on evidence of safety benefits.
The M6 J13-15 is the first smart motorway upgrade to open with additional emergency
areas – five in addition to the originally planned 21 – to give drivers more places to
stop in an emergency. Drivers will be able to use one of 26 emergency areas if they
need to stop in an emergency, with a place to stop or leave the motorway every 0.99
miles on average.
All motorways, with or without a hard shoulder, are designed and operated with
drivers in mind, to be easy and straightforward to drive on. On motorways where the
hard shoulder has been converted to a traffic lane, there’s a whole system of interrelated features, working together to help keep traffic moving safely. They include:
• variable speed limits to help keep traffic moving, reducing frustrating stop-start
traffic and making journeys quicker
• clearly signed and orange-coloured emergency areas set back from the road
and with telephones linking directly to our control rooms
Nick Wells
Project Sponsor
National Highways
2 Colmore Square
Birmingham
B4 6BN
11 August 2022
• detection systems to monitor traffic for changes in flows and speeds
• CCTV cameras that our operators are able to move and zoom to monitor and
manage congestion and incidents, where notified. The system has the ability
to see 100% of the carriageway
• signs and signals to provide better information, and that can alert drivers to
hazards ahead and display Red X signals to close lanes to other traffic when
a stopped vehicle is identified
• enforcement cameras to deter the minority who break speed limits and ignore
Red X signals
To further enhance safety, on all lane running smart motorways we are continuing to
roll out technology which will allow us to detect stopped vehicles. The stopped vehicle
detection (SVD) system automatically identifies stopped vehicles and provides an alert
to our control rooms. Our operators can then close lanes with a Red X signal, display
speed limits and deploy traffic officers.
The system of inter-related features is all overseen and joined up by our dedicated
National Highways teams, both in control rooms and on road, who are here to help
24 hours a day, 365 days a year.
We’d like to thank you for your co-operation and understanding while this work was
carried out. Please note that we’ll be returning to carry out some final activities, such
as carriageway strengthening work, however we will aim to cause minimum
disruption. We’ll share the details on our website when they are available.
Can this be the result of me complaining about the very lengthy period the 60mph limit has been imposed without apparent cause ? There is a sign about halfway through the restricted section that says the limit is for systems testing. I emailed a complaint on Monday and suggested they sack the "systems testing" team and get a new team that is rather more proactive.

Frankly the M6 is a complete disgrace at the moment for anybody wanting to make reasonable progress. No doubt Jns 15-16 will be the next section to be "upgraded". There is also the never-ending 50 mph limit between Jns 21a and 26, and the never-ending disruption at Jn 10

Many decades ago, Patrick Hutber, the City Editor of the Daily Telegraph postulated "Hutbers Law", which was - "All announcements of improvement are actually of deterioration". Readers were invited to send in examples. Most letters were on the lines of "We are improving our customer service and facilities. Unfortunately....."
Are you the person whose question they said would reply to on 19th August?
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Big L
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by Big L »

Mostly 70 southbound this morning. First limit sign was 40 with “Report of blocked lane”. Second was National Speed Limit. No blocked lane. Nothing even remotely like one.

There was an actual blocked lane by the works unit by Stafford, with limits signed.
Make poetry history.

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fras
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by fras »

The 60 mph limit had gone when I drove down to Cornwall yesterday. Of course with summer holidays traffic levels on Saturday morning, it was the usual three lanes chock-a-block, with nobody able to do 70, but when it was 60 mph limit nobody could do 60 mph either. I suppose we've gone from an average of 55, to 65 mph. Of course with the cash cameras, extremely few people go over 70 mph on ALR motorways. Is one of the purposes of ALR motorways to enforce the 70 mph limit, (the lowest limit of any European country) ?
Bomag
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by Bomag »

fras wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 00:04 The 60 mph limit had gone when I drove down to Cornwall yesterday. Of course with summer holidays traffic levels on Saturday morning, it was the usual three lanes chock-a-block, with nobody able to do 70, but when it was 60 mph limit nobody could do 60 mph either. I suppose we've gone from an average of 55, to 65 mph. Of course with the cash cameras, extremely few people go over 70 mph on ALR motorways. Is one of the purposes of ALR motorways to enforce the 70 mph limit, (the lowest limit of any European country) ?
Enforcement of NSl is down to the relevant partnership. South Yorks goes hot and cold.

Given the reduced standards for SM-ALR, including cross section, doing more than than 10%+2 is going to be unpleasant for most with significantly accelerated fatigue.
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Chris5156
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by Chris5156 »

fras wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 00:04Of course with the cash cameras, extremely few people go over 70 mph on ALR motorways. Is one of the purposes of ALR motorways to enforce the 70 mph limit, (the lowest limit of any European country) ?
Come and tell that to rush hour traffic on the Smart sections of the M3, where it seems that everyone has sussed that you can do 75-80 with impunity!
Bendo
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by Bendo »

KILLER KNIGHT wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 11:46Are you the person whose question they said would reply to on 19th August?
Possibly my FOI request via whatdotheyknow?
Chris5156 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 00:54
fras wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 00:04Of course with the cash cameras, extremely few people go over 70 mph on ALR motorways. Is one of the purposes of ALR motorways to enforce the 70 mph limit, (the lowest limit of any European country) ?
Come and tell that to rush hour traffic on the Smart sections of the M3, where it seems that everyone has sussed that you can do 75-80 with impunity!
My experience of all of them between Liverpool and Devon too, I do GPS 77 and am usually surrounded by a load doing the same. Then there are those who do 80 plus but slam on to less than 70 at every single gantry.
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Chris5156
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by Chris5156 »

Bendo wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 01:51
Chris5156 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 00:54Come and tell that to rush hour traffic on the Smart sections of the M3, where it seems that everyone has sussed that you can do 75-80 with impunity!
My experience of all of them between Liverpool and Devon too, I do GPS 77 and am usually surrounded by a load doing the same. Then there are those who do 80 plus but slam on to less than 70 at every single gantry.
Yes, plenty of those about. It must be exhausting to drive like that!
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Bryn666
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by Bryn666 »

People are slowing down to save fuel because who knew, fuel is expensive now. The German car numpty market is still full of people doing 97 in the outside lane though - not expensive enough to deter them.
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Big L
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by Big L »

Bryn666 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 09:30 People are slowing down to save fuel because who knew, fuel is expensive now. The German car numpty market is still full of people doing 97 in the outside lane though - not expensive enough to deter them.
Fuel cards help.
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ManomayLR
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by ManomayLR »

I for one am recommending to my family that we consider taking the train if it's only one person and there is little luggage.
The train fare will be about the same as the fuel cost, if that fuel cost is not split between at least 2 or even 3 passengers.
Electric trains are also the more environmentally conscious choice.

I went on this M6 stretch for the first time a few weeks ago on the way to the Lakes. There was a 60 limit but overall it looked quite clean which was nice. Didn't have to endure the roadworks though!

On the way back, though, I came from elsewhere and I was on my own without my family so I took the LNER. A day late because of an overhead line fault, but it was a smooth and fast journey which I was quite happy with.
Though roads may not put a smile on everyone's face, there is one road that always will: the road to home.
brummie_rob
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by brummie_rob »

fras wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 00:04 The 60 mph limit had gone when I drove down to Cornwall yesterday. Of course with summer holidays traffic levels on Saturday morning, it was the usual three lanes chock-a-block, with nobody able to do 70, but when it was 60 mph limit nobody could do 60 mph either. I suppose we've gone from an average of 55, to 65 mph. Of course with the cash cameras, extremely few people go over 70 mph on ALR motorways. Is one of the purposes of ALR motorways to enforce the 70 mph limit, (the lowest limit of any European country) ?
My first Monday journey today, but it was filled with holiday traffic in the right three lanes with lots of empty space in lane one where I did manage 70 on a few occasions, but as soon as moving into the other lanes speeds dropped to 60-65.

It'll be nice this evening though once it is quiet to do a GPS 77 again!
Bendo
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by Bendo »

Look forward to some works to replace the failed signage soon, this is the reply to my FOI request.
Dear Mr Scott

M6 Smart Motorway J13 to J15

Thank you for your information request dated 24 July 2022 regarding M6
Smart Motorway J13 to J15. We have dealt with your request under the
provisions of the Freedom of Information Act 2000.



You asked -

Can you please explain why the M6 Smart motorway between J13 & J15 is
still operating at 60 MPH despite works appealing to be complete for
months?

Please confirm the expected return to full speed.

Please detail current issues, some gantries appear to be failing already
with faded rings on the speed limit display.

Perhaps almost a year of showings 60 has caused some of them to fail, what
is the expected life of a gantry showing a constant speed limit?



I can confirm that we hold the information you have requested.

Information provided

We lifted the 60 mph restriction on the M6 J13 – 15 last Thursday (11
August). Before this, drivers were kept at a lower maximum speed limit of
60mph while we calibrated the technology which includes detecting stopped
vehicles.

All motorway upgrades are opened in a phased way to ensure that they are
fully tested and operational before they go live, with a smooth handover
from the roadworks teams to control room operators. Safety is always our
primary concern, and we will only fully open the carriageway at 70mph when
all of the technology has been comprehensively tested. Our testing now
shows the system is performing satisfactorily so we have increased the
maximum speed to the national speed limit of 70mph.

The faded rings you describe are the result of the signs being supplied
with an insufficient level of brightness. These will be replaced soon, but
we didn’t want to delay lifting the speed limit any further. Technology
equipment generally has a design life of 15 years, after that advances in
technology mean that the equipment would be replaced with newer, more
advanced technology.
KILLER KNIGHT
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by KILLER KNIGHT »

Big L wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 19:30 Mostly 70 southbound this morning. First limit sign was 40 with “Report of blocked lane”. Second was National Speed Limit. No blocked lane. Nothing even remotely like one.

There was an actual blocked lane by the works unit by Stafford, with limits signed.
Where was the 40mph sign?
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Big L
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by Big L »

KILLER KNIGHT wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 00:47
Big L wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 19:30 Mostly 70 southbound this morning. First limit sign was 40 with “Report of blocked lane”. Second was National Speed Limit. No blocked lane. Nothing even remotely like one.

There was an actual blocked lane by the works unit by Stafford, with limits signed.
Where was the 40mph sign?
The first sign heading southbound.
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KILLER KNIGHT
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway

Post by KILLER KNIGHT »

Big L wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 06:39
KILLER KNIGHT wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 00:47
Big L wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 19:30 Mostly 70 southbound this morning. First limit sign was 40 with “Report of blocked lane”. Second was National Speed Limit. No blocked lane. Nothing even remotely like one.

There was an actual blocked lane by the works unit by Stafford, with limits signed.
Where was the 40mph sign?
The first sign heading southbound.
Of course it was. It once said ‘Report of animals’.
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