Linking the Outer Hebrides

[orudge]

The plan for Shapinsay was a tunnel, and likewise for South Ronaldsay to mainland Scotland. The most recent reference to this, and other proposals, is here. Also proposals for "four miles of causeways linking Rousay with Egilsay and Rousay with Wyre", and a fixed link between Westray and Eday. This was all 4 years ago though; I don't see anything more recent.

[exiled]

That makes sense.

[Big L]

I really fancy visiting Lewis and Harris et al one of these years, and maybe it will need to be soon. Island hopping is much more fun by ferry.

[Berk]

I don’t think these plans will come to fruition until I’m about my parent’s age.

[Vierwielen]

I don’t think these plans will come to fruition until I’m about my parent’s age.

... unless the government of the day need to bribe the SNP vote on some unrelated matter.

[Nwallace]

Do the Harris-N Uist and S Uist-Barra traffic volumes or economic growth justify that sort of expenditure?

A tunnel to Skye would weather-proof the Little Minch routes but Uig is still a long way from the main Scottish road network.

I can only speak of the Western Isles as a tourist, but the ferries are an essential part of the character of the islands.

Try getting on a Sound of Harris ferry in spring/summer/autumn without booking a week in advance, you may be very lucky!
AFAIK it's the only bookable service run by a loch class vessel.

I do wonder if Loch Bhrushda (Which was purpose built for this sailing and was only replaced because capacity was reached) could sail opposing services to Loch Portain, there's a fairly large area about mid way of reasonably deep water though maybe not enough for them to pass.
It would also allow some services to be run at lower water times as Bhrusda can sail in slightly shallower waters (Portain could but was modified)

Thanks to Rupert's link, it appears that the Sound of Harris is not particularly deep. Such a crossing (barring environmental concerns) could probably be done mainly by causeway, with a number of smaller spans.

Keeping the Sound of Harris navigable is quite important though as it is passable for smaller vessels, particularly the fishing fleet and the ocean going passenger craft that both tend to the NTS at St Kilda and take passengers there, so Ensay to Harris would need to be a bridge.

Thanks to Rupert's link, it appears that the Sound of Harris is not particularly deep. Such a crossing (barring environmental concerns) could probably be done mainly by causeway, with a number of smaller spans.

The Sound isn't particularly deep, but I think there can be some strong tidal races which, combined with environmental concerns, may see a need for more bridge and less causeway than you might think. I know they got away with mostly causeway for the North and South Fords on the Uists, but this was 50ish years ago and I think that the conditions in the Sound of Harris are quite different.

There's also a hint in the name, those passages were fordable at low tide, where as you'd get more than just wet feet trying to cross from Berneray to Harris!

I don’t think these plans will come to fruition until I’m about my parent’s age.

... unless the government of the day need to bribe the SNP vote on some unrelated matter.

As the island councils tend to be made up of Pseudo-Independent councillors it's not clear what the island's political make up is, but you do get a hint from general elections.
The Western Isles have been SNP or Labour for a long time
The Northern Isles have been Lib-Dem for a similar period of time.

The chances of either party working with a UK government is minimum for the foreseeable.

[Berk]

Let us assume, for a moment, that devolution did not occur in 1997. Scotland would still be “governed” by the Scottish Office/SoS for Scotland, a UK Government minister. Public funding for Scotland would come directly from the UK Government.

That would include funding for CalMac Ferries (or whichever name they presently trade under). Given the austerity measures that've been in place for the last 10 years or so, asking the UK taxpayer to maintain, and extend funding requirements for five ferry routes to the Western Isles, two of which require a dedicated craft, due to geophysical constraints... I can’t see how that could be sustained, in the long run.

I’m sure that, if devolution (not to mention Brexit) hadn’t occurred, we’d be looking at Westminster tendering for and procuring a contract to replace at least one of these links with a bridge. And the remaining routes can be serviced with a standard ferry, and no tidal constraints. And that could potentially mean increasing sailings on some of the other routes, making them more profitable.

[Berk]

Actually, can anyone remember the rationale for building the Skye Bridge?? I don’t seem to remember there being any issues with the quality of the ferry service (apart from the limit of how many vehicles can cross at one time).

[Ruperts Trooper]

Actually, can anyone remember the rationale for building the Skye Bridge?? I don’t seem to remember there being any issues with the quality of the ferry service (apart from the limit of how many vehicles can cross at one time).

According to Wikipedia, the need for a bridge had been proposed in the late 1800s when the railway and roads reached Kyle of Lochalsh, well within engineering capability of the time as the crossing is shorter and shallower than the Forth rail bridge, however the cost couldn't be justified. By 1971 the two 28-car ferries carried more than 300,000 vehicles per year. Increased prosperity in the islands and a healthy summertime tourist traffic led to traffic queueing for the ferries. This brought renewed calls for the construction of a road bridge.

[Nwallace]

Actually, can anyone remember the rationale for building the Skye Bridge?? I don’t seem to remember there being any issues with the quality of the ferry service (apart from the limit of how many vehicles can cross at one time).

Shop Supplies and Newspapers arriving at 4pm or the next day if it was particularly busy.
Joining the ferry queue at 5am and crossing somepoint in the afternoon if you were lucky.

The islanders demanded a bridge, so they got one, and huge tolls to cover the cost, which they went in the huff about as they could day trippers drive up to the toll board and do a u-ey.

The 36 car ferries, Loch Fyne and Loch Dunvegan were built by the Scottish office as a stop gap in 1990 and were meant to be sold on when the bridge was built but no buyer could be found.
The predecessors held 28 cars so it wasn't a huge increase in capacity and were only a knot slower.

[havaska_uk]

I love the way we always have to consider the 'economic benefits' or cost of building bridges/causeways etc.

There doesn't always have to be a clear economic benefit. The UK and Scotland are not a business. A country should invest money in the areas that need it, be it physical infrastructure, education etc.

The whole point of being in a unified country and paying tax is that money flows to areas that need it.

When judging whether to build a project, equal measure should be paid to the benefit it would bring to the citizens of our shared country, rather than just the money it could make. Collectively we share the burden and benefits as a nation.

So in my opinion, it's something that should very much go ahead. We should be linking the more remote areas of our nation together for the benefit of all.

[A9NWIL]

I love the way we always have to consider the 'economic benefits' or cost of building bridges/causeways etc.

There doesn't always have to be a clear economic benefit. The UK and Scotland are not a business. A country should invest money in the areas that need it, be it physical infrastructure, education etc.

The whole point of being in a unified country and paying tax is that money flows to areas that need it.

When judging whether to build a project, equal measure should be paid to the benefit it would bring to the citizens of our shared country, rather than just the money it could make. Collectively we share the burden and benefits as a nation.

So in my opinion, it's something that should very much go ahead. We should be linking the more remote areas of our nation together for the benefit of all.

I agree governments arent businesses even if thats what the current lot would have us believe!

[Nwallace]

I love the way we always have to consider the 'economic benefits' or cost of building bridges/causeways etc.

There doesn't always have to be a clear economic benefit. The UK and Scotland are not a business. A country should invest money in the areas that need it, be it physical infrastructure, education etc.

The whole point of being in a unified country and paying tax is that money flows to areas that need it.

When judging whether to build a project, equal measure should be paid to the benefit it would bring to the citizens of our shared country, rather than just the money it could make. Collectively we share the burden and benefits as a nation.

So in my opinion, it's something that should very much go ahead. We should be linking the more remote areas of our nation together for the benefit of all.

The Scalpay bridge was built on the basis of Social benefit, without it the Island would have been depopulated by now.
The A9 Upgrade has also had Social Benefit quite blatantly shoved into the economic figures.
It's also essentially what the ERDF has been doing for years in many parts of Scotland with some areas having managed to figure out how to make those improved roads work to their economic benefit (NC500).

[orudge]

There have been various discussions over the past 15 years (and probably longer ago too) about linking either some of the Orkney islands to mainland Orkney (typically Shapinsay is suggested), or linking Orkney itself (South Ronaldsay) to mainland Scotland. To be honest, I’m somewhat doubtful the latter will ever happen. The former seems more likely, but I suppose it depends on costs and benefits.

I chose this topic to dig up rather than a 2005 topic about an Orkney tunnel, but either way, the Scottish Government has ruled out a fixed link from the Scottish mainland to Orkney. Apparently an engineering assessment had taken place for a 10 mile tunnel and an 8 mile bridge, but both are considered 'impractical'.

[Burns]

I chose this topic to dig up rather than a 2005 topic about an Orkney tunnel, but either way, the Scottish Government has ruled out a fixed link from the Scottish mainland to Orkney. Apparently an engineering assessment had taken place for a 10 mile tunnel and an 8 mile bridge, but both are considered 'impractical'.

Don't tell these UK engineers about the Ryfylke Tunnel in Stavanger. They'll have heart attacks.

[Herned]

Or the Faroe Islands, who are currently digging something similar... for £10m per km

[Chris Bertram]

Or the Faroe Islands, who are currently digging something similar... for £10m per km

They have dug and opened this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eysturoyartunnilin. This is the longest to be opened so far, but sub-sea tunnels already existed connecting Streymoy and Vágar (the island where the airport is), and Eysturoy and Borðoy, the island with the second-biggest town of Klaksvík. There was already a fixed link - a bridge - between Streymoy and Eysturoy, but the new tunnel cut the distance between Tórshavn and Klaksvík substantially.

The current project under construction - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandoyartunnilin - will connect Streymoy with Sandoy. I suspect that that will be the final tunnel to be built. Causeways and bridges already link the northern isles, Mykines has a very small population (and it's hard to see where a tunnel would emerge anyway) as do Koltur, Hestur, Skúvoy and Stóra Dímun (Lítla Dímun is uninhabited), Nólsoy is well-served by ferry, and Suðuroy would be another degree of difficulty and cost to connect to Sandoy.

[Altnabreac]

Or the Faroe Islands, who are currently digging something similar... for £10m per km

They have dug and opened this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eysturoyartunnilin. This is the longest to be opened so far, but sub-sea tunnels already existed connecting Streymoy and Vágar (the island where the airport is), and Eysturoy and Borðoy, the island with the second-biggest town of Klaksvík. There was already a fixed link - a bridge - between Streymoy and Eysturoy, but the new tunnel cut the distance between Tórshavn and Klaksvík substantially.

The current project under construction - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandoyartunnilin - will connect Streymoy with Sandoy. I suspect that that will be the final tunnel to be built. Causeways and bridges already link the northern isles, Mykines has a very small population (and it's hard to see where a tunnel would emerge anyway) as do Koltur, Hestur, Skúvoy and Stóra Dímun (Lítla Dímun is uninhabited), Nólsoy is well-served by ferry, and Suðuroy would be another degree of difficulty and cost to connect to Sandoy.

I suspect the tunnel to Suðuroy (with a Skúvoy connection) will happen. Political pressure from Suðuroy is likely to be very high even though the technical difficulties will be higher.

The other island where they are considering a sub sea tunnel is actually Svínoy. Curiously the alternative proposal to a tunnel is actually a cable car which seems even less likely to stack up financially.

[WHBM]

Or the Faroe Islands, who are currently digging something similar... for £10m per km

I have a follow-on task for them at the Blackwall Tunnel ...

[Starling]

There have been various discussions over the past 15 years (and probably longer ago too) about linking either some of the Orkney islands to mainland Orkney (typically Shapinsay is suggested), or linking Orkney itself (South Ronaldsay) to mainland Scotland. To be honest, I’m somewhat doubtful the latter will ever happen. The former seems more likely, but I suppose it depends on costs and benefits.

I chose this topic to dig up rather than a 2005 topic about an Orkney tunnel, but either way, the Scottish Government has ruled out a fixed link from the Scottish mainland to Orkney. Apparently an engineering assessment had taken place for a 10 mile tunnel and an 8 mile bridge, but both are considered 'impractical'.

The Scottish government must consult engineers who know hardly anything about tunnels.

There are all these mystical excuses that stop the construction of tunnels in Scotland, these excuses don't seem to exist in the Faeroe Islands or Norway.

A shocking fact is that no new fixed links have been built in Scotland since devolution. The last new one was the Scalpay bridge opened in 1997. The fixed links that have been built since devolution have replaced existing ones and weren't new ones.