International communities LHT/RHT

[Ruperts Trooper]

Neither the BLS or CTS were sales successes in RHD form - neither was the US-built Opel/Vauxhall Ampera (Chevrolet Volt) taking several years to sell through the first, and only, batch shipped to Europe.

The Opel/Vauxhall Insignia suffered from GM's RHD-blindness as the Epsilon II platform was developed in the US and incapable of fitting the high-power powertrain in RHD versions as engine ancilliaries were in the way of the steering column - without the prospect of UK sales, Opel dropped both the RHD & LHD performance versions from development.

Can I echo the sentiments of others that it's nice to see you back.

Thanks - nice to be back in touch.

I think that's the point. GM did good RHD versions of cars like the BLS, CTS and Ampera/Volt but weren't rewarded with decent sales so they then became discouraged and went through a period of giving up before taking a renewed interest a few years later, a repeating cycle.

GM North America's marketing has always been poor to non-existent in Europe - even as a GM enthusiast at the time, I wasn't aware of the existence of BLS or CTS - the cynics would have highlighted that the BLS shared its underpinnings with the Vectra-C, it was hard enough for Saab to get away from that so probably no chance for Cadillac.

[Vierwielen]

Neither the BLS or CTS were sales successes in RHD form - neither was the US-built Opel/Vauxhall Ampera (Chevrolet Volt) taking several years to sell through the first, and only, batch shipped to Europe.

The Opel/Vauxhall Insignia suffered from GM's RHD-blindness as the Epsilon II platform was developed in the US and incapable of fitting the high-power powertrain in RHD versions as engine ancilliaries were in the way of the steering column - without the prospect of UK sales, Opel dropped both the RHD & LHD performance versions from development.

Can I echo the sentiments of others that it's nice to see you back.

Thanks - nice to be back in touch.

I think that's the point. GM did good RHD versions of cars like the BLS, CTS and Ampera/Volt but weren't rewarded with decent sales so they then became discouraged and went through a period of giving up before taking a renewed interest a few years later, a repeating cycle.

This suggests to me that if a company is to market successful LHD and RHD variants of a model, then both need to be designed at the same time by the same team of designers.

[Ruperts Trooper]

Neither the BLS or CTS were sales successes in RHD form - neither was the US-built Opel/Vauxhall Ampera (Chevrolet Volt) taking several years to sell through the first, and only, batch shipped to Europe.

The Opel/Vauxhall Insignia suffered from GM's RHD-blindness as the Epsilon II platform was developed in the US and incapable of fitting the high-power powertrain in RHD versions as engine ancilliaries were in the way of the steering column - without the prospect of UK sales, Opel dropped both the RHD & LHD performance versions from development.

Can I echo the sentiments of others that it's nice to see you back.

Thanks - nice to be back in touch.

I think that's the point. GM did good RHD versions of cars like the BLS, CTS and Ampera/Volt but weren't rewarded with decent sales so they then became discouraged and went through a period of giving up before taking a renewed interest a few years later, a repeating cycle.

This suggests to me that if a company is to market successful LHD and RHD variants of a model, then both need to be designed at the same time by the same team of designers.

That's the economic way to to it - with modern CAD processes it's not difficult to do this at the design stage, merely identify which items are mirror-image and which remain in their existing position - the Japanese do it routinely as their home market RHD is a global minority, not that Europeans have much difficulty.

Going back several generations, many British post-WW2 sports cars were exported to the US, with some now being repatriated for classic restoration - a job made easy during a complete strip-down as most body-shells already had mounting holes drilled for both LHD and RHD so the cars can be rebuilt as RHD.

[Vierwielen]

Thanks - nice to be back in touch.

I think that's the point. GM did good RHD versions of cars like the BLS, CTS and Ampera/Volt but weren't rewarded with decent sales so they then became discouraged and went through a period of giving up before taking a renewed interest a few years later, a repeating cycle.

This suggests to me that if a company is to market successful LHD and RHD variants of a model, then both need to be designed at the same time by the same team of designers.

That's the economic way to to it - with modern CAD processes it's not difficult to do this at the design stage, merely identify which items are mirror-image and which remain in their existing position - the Japanese do it routinely as their home market RHD is a global minority, not that Europeans have much difficulty.

Going back several generations, many British post-WW2 sports cars were exported to the US, with some now being repatriated for classic restoration - a job made easy during a complete strip-down as most body-shells already had mounting holes drilled for both LHD and RHD so the cars can be rebuilt as RHD.

I have noticed that panels for many cars have recesses for LHD and RHD windscreen wipers. ALthough most Sabristi woudl realise the difference, a conventional pair of windscreen wipers are postionsed such that the driver's windscreen is swept properly, but the top left-hand corner (for RHD cars),which is on the passenger's side is left unswept. As Ruperts Trooper said, on some models, holes have already been drilled, but on other not.

Slightly off topic - many years ago I fitted my own kitchen (or rather fitted one for SWMBO). One of the components was a 300 mm overhead cupboard. When the kit arrived, the kit contained the parts to make either a 300 mm or a 500 mm cupboard. It was obvious to me that when the manufacturers were pricing their kit, it was cost effective to have one some redundant parts in a product that only had a limited number of sales rather then two products with no redundancy. The same probably applies to car manufacture.

[RichardA626]

I rememby my Mum's Metro had holes for LHD & RHD wipers, with the LHD ones filled with plastic bungs.

[doebag]

Going back awhile
The MK1 Ford Granada [ Sweeney shape ] was built in the UK and Germany. They came with either LH steer or RH steer bulkheads which were unique.
The MK2 Granada was wholly built in Germany and came with a universal bulkhead with openings/threaded holes for either LH or RH steer.

[roadtester]

Going back awhile
The MK1 Ford Granada [ Sweeney shape ] was built in the UK and Germany. They came with either LH steer or RH steer bulkheads which were unique.
The MK2 Granada was wholly built in Germany and came with a universal bulkhead with openings/threaded holes for either LH or RH steer.

I think Mk1 production was Germany only from 1976. No idea what implications that had for bulkhead design. Interesting that the Mk1 and Mk2 should differ in this way as Mk2 is mostly a reskin of Mk1.

[Ruperts Trooper]

Going back awhile
The MK1 Ford Granada [ Sweeney shape ] was built in the UK and Germany. They came with either LH steer or RH steer bulkheads which were unique.
The MK2 Granada was wholly built in Germany and came with a universal bulkhead with openings/threaded holes for either LH or RH steer.

I think Mk1 production was Germany only from 1976. No idea what implications that had for bulkhead design. Interesting that the Mk1 and Mk2 should differ in this way as Mk2 is mostly a reskin of Mk1.

I'd guess that the mk1 Coupe was only built in Germany, but in both LHD and RHD forms

[roadtester]

Going back awhile
The MK1 Ford Granada [ Sweeney shape ] was built in the UK and Germany. They came with either LH steer or RH steer bulkheads which were unique.
The MK2 Granada was wholly built in Germany and came with a universal bulkhead with openings/threaded holes for either LH or RH steer.

I think Mk1 production was Germany only from 1976. No idea what implications that had for bulkhead design. Interesting that the Mk1 and Mk2 should differ in this way as Mk2 is mostly a reskin of Mk1.

I'd guess that the mk1 Coupe was only built in Germany, but in both LHD and RHD forms

There were actually two slightly different Granada coupes (not sure whether that was related to RHD/LHD or whether one was just an update of the other) and Germany also had a two-door saloon which we never got - as well as a 2dr saloon Mk2.

[WHBM]

There are other different elements as well. 15-20 years ago, when white cars were pretty unavailable in Britain, I had the Jaguar (UK) colour chart. No white. Visiting Portugal, I was surprised to see the same model, LHD, readily available in white there, in fact it seemed to be the most common colour.

[Mark Hewitt]

This suggests to me that if a company is to market successful LHD and RHD variants of a model, then both need to be designed at the same time by the same team of designers.

That's the economic way to to it - with modern CAD processes it's not difficult to do this at the design stage, merely identify which items are mirror-image and which remain in their existing position - the Japanese do it routinely as their home market RHD is a global minority, not that Europeans have much difficulty.

Going back several generations, many British post-WW2 sports cars were exported to the US, with some now being repatriated for classic restoration - a job made easy during a complete strip-down as most body-shells already had mounting holes drilled for both LHD and RHD so the cars can be rebuilt as RHD.

I have noticed that panels for many cars have recesses for LHD and RHD windscreen wipers. ALthough most Sabristi woudl realise the difference, a conventional pair of windscreen wipers are postionsed such that the driver's windscreen is swept properly, but the top left-hand corner (for RHD cars),which is on the passenger's side is left unswept. As Ruperts Trooper said, on some models, holes have already been drilled, but on other not.

Slightly off topic - many years ago I fitted my own kitchen (or rather fitted one for SWMBO). One of the components was a 300 mm overhead cupboard. When the kit arrived, the kit contained the parts to make either a 300 mm or a 500 mm cupboard. It was obvious to me that when the manufacturers were pricing their kit, it was cost effective to have one some redundant parts in a product that only had a limited number of sales rather then two products with no redundancy. The same probably applies to car manufacture.

My wife used to have a Peugeot 206 (says it's by far the worst car she's ever owned). The wipers went the 'wrong' way and had some sort of mechanism fitted to pivot the wiper blade upwards so it swept sufficient parts of the windscreen.

[RichardA626]

That's the economic way to to it - with modern CAD processes it's not difficult to do this at the design stage, merely identify which items are mirror-image and which remain in their existing position - the Japanese do it routinely as their home market RHD is a global minority, not that Europeans have much difficulty.

Going back several generations, many British post-WW2 sports cars were exported to the US, with some now being repatriated for classic restoration - a job made easy during a complete strip-down as most body-shells already had mounting holes drilled for both LHD and RHD so the cars can be rebuilt as RHD.

I have noticed that panels for many cars have recesses for LHD and RHD windscreen wipers. ALthough most Sabristi woudl realise the difference, a conventional pair of windscreen wipers are postionsed such that the driver's windscreen is swept properly, but the top left-hand corner (for RHD cars),which is on the passenger's side is left unswept. As Ruperts Trooper said, on some models, holes have already been drilled, but on other not.

Slightly off topic - many years ago I fitted my own kitchen (or rather fitted one for SWMBO). One of the components was a 300 mm overhead cupboard. When the kit arrived, the kit contained the parts to make either a 300 mm or a 500 mm cupboard. It was obvious to me that when the manufacturers were pricing their kit, it was cost effective to have one some redundant parts in a product that only had a limited number of sales rather then two products with no redundancy. The same probably applies to car manufacture.

My wife used to have a Peugeot 206 (says it's by far the worst car she's ever owned). The wipers went the 'wrong' way and had some sort of mechanism fitted to pivot the wiper blade upwards so it swept sufficient parts of the windscreen.

I remember some Renaults had a similar fudge.

[roadtester]

My wife used to have a Peugeot 206 (says it's by far the worst car she's ever owned). The wipers went the 'wrong' way and had some sort of mechanism fitted to pivot the wiper blade upwards so it swept sufficient parts of the windscreen.

I remember some Renaults had a similar fudge.

I wouldn't necessarily assume those wipers were the wrong way. IIRC the Morris Marina had its wipers the 'wrong' way on both LHD and RHD - possibly I have a dim recollection, something to do with the wipers lifting at high speed and the wrong sided set-up actually giving slightly better visibility in practice.

I also recall another car (can't remember which) that had the handbrake on what clearly seemed to be the 'wrong' i.e. far side of the centre console/transmission tunnel, which made it much more awkward to operate. I assumed this was down to a lazy conversion to RHD and they hadn't bothered to swap it over. I later tried an LHD version of the same car, and that had a set-up that completely mirrored the RHD, i.e. the handbrake was on the 'wrong' side in that too.

[Mark Hewitt]

My wife used to have a Peugeot 206 (says it's by far the worst car she's ever owned). The wipers went the 'wrong' way and had some sort of mechanism fitted to pivot the wiper blade upwards so it swept sufficient parts of the windscreen.

I remember some Renaults had a similar fudge.

I wouldn't necessarily assume those wipers were the wrong way. IIRC the Morris Marina had its wipers the 'wrong' way on both LHD and RHD - possibly I have a dim recollection, something to do with the wipers lifting at high speed and the wrong sided set-up actually giving slightly better visibility in practice.

I also recall another car (can't remember which) that had the handbrake on what clearly seemed to be the 'wrong' i.e. far side of the centre console/transmission tunnel, which made it much more awkward to operate. I assumed this was down to a lazy conversion to RHD and they hadn't bothered to swap it over. I later tried an LHD version of the same car, and that had a set-up that completely mirrored the RHD, i.e. the handbrake was on the 'wrong' side in that too.

You do tend to notice little things where it's obvious the car was designed for LHD and then swapped over. The likes of volume buttons being on the left of the radio.

Things have gotten better in recent years and the need to cater for both more recognised in the design stage eg my car had the volume control right in the middle.

The likes of Apple Car Play can move the home button from the left to right (if you find the right setting)

But there's still the odd thing, eg with the Hyundai in built software the Home icon is at the top left, and no option to swap it.

[WHBM]

My old 1964 VW Beetle had the direction indicator just on a ring over the steering column right behind the steering wheel. You could have it on whichever side you wanted, or even up at the top if you liked. You couldn't go round and round with it without breaking the cable. From a time when different manufacturers put the indicators on different sides anyway, which those with two cars wrote was confusing, it meant you could have it as you wished.

[Vierwielen]

My wife used to have a Peugeot 206 (says it's by far the worst car she's ever owned). The wipers went the 'wrong' way and had some sort of mechanism fitted to pivot the wiper blade upwards so it swept sufficient parts of the windscreen.

I remember some Renaults had a similar fudge.

I wouldn't necessarily assume those wipers were the wrong way. IIRC the Morris Marina had its wipers the 'wrong' way on both LHD and RHD - possibly I have a dim recollection, something to do with the wipers lifting at high speed and the wrong sided set-up actually giving slightly better visibility in practice.

I also recall another car (can't remember which) that had the handbrake on what clearly seemed to be the 'wrong' i.e. far side of the centre console/transmission tunnel, which made it much more awkward to operate. I assumed this was down to a lazy conversion to RHD and they hadn't bothered to swap it over. I later tried an LHD version of the same car, and that had a set-up that completely mirrored the RHD, i.e. the handbrake was on the 'wrong' side in that too.

It is of course possible that the handbrake was put on the other side of the centre console/transmission tunnel so that people who are grossly over-weight would not find their own flab getting in the way of the hand-brake (or people whose clothing draped down the side of the seat).

[Owain]

My wife used to have a Peugeot 206 (says it's by far the worst car she's ever owned). The wipers went the 'wrong' way and had some sort of mechanism fitted to pivot the wiper blade upwards so it swept sufficient parts of the windscreen.

I remember some Renaults had a similar fudge.

I wouldn't necessarily assume those wipers were the wrong way. IIRC the Morris Marina had its wipers the 'wrong' way on both LHD and RHD - possibly I have a dim recollection, something to do with the wipers lifting at high speed and the wrong sided set-up actually giving slightly better visibility in practice.

The Austin Allegro definitely had 'wrong-way' wipers (as just confirmed by a quick Google Image search!).

I also recall another car (can't remember which) that had the handbrake on what clearly seemed to be the 'wrong' i.e. far side of the centre console/transmission tunnel, which made it much more awkward to operate. I assumed this was down to a lazy conversion to RHD and they hadn't bothered to swap it over. I later tried an LHD version of the same car, and that had a set-up that completely mirrored the RHD, i.e. the handbrake was on the 'wrong' side in that too.

I've driven something with the handbrake on the 'wrong' side, so that I had to reach over the centre console to get a grip on it. However, I cannot remember which car it was!

It was possibly the Fiat 124 Spider, which I had in Italy, meaning that I would have had a LHD car with a RHD handbrake setup. Considering that it's based on the Mazda MX-5, and that Japanese cars would be RHD in their domestic market, I guess this makes sense.

The Alfa 147 has a cup-holder and a coin tray in the dashboard above the radio. In ours, it is evident that it was designed for a LHD car and that they hadn't bothered to change it for the RHD market, because the cup-holder is next to the steering wheel rather than away from it, with the result that you can easily clip it with your hand if it's being used while driving. It is particularly annoying when you go to change gear!

[Big L]

The Austin Allegro definitely had 'wrong-way' wipers (as just confirmed by a quick Google Image search!).

Did they work better in reverse?

[RichardA626]

The handbook of my first Toyota Yaris showed that the instrument display was mirror imaged depending on which side the steering wheel was.

On my current one I've noticed that the stepped automatic gear shift is the opposite way round on LHD cars.

[roadtester]

The Austin Allegro definitely had 'wrong-way' wipers (as just confirmed by a quick Google Image search!).

Did they work better in reverse?

I'm guessing you're getting at the old story (which I think may even be true) that the Allegro was more aerodynamic facing backwards than forwards!

I believe the old DAFs with their stepless CVT transmissions could in theory go as fast in reverse as in their forward gear and I think that there was even a presumably not entirely serious race series in which these cars were raced in reverse.