Mersey Tunnels (images!)

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

WHBM
Member
Posts: 9708
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 18:01
Location: London

Post by WHBM »

Birkenhead flyovers

I remember them going up around 1970 but was not there when they went - possibly 20 years later.

The flyovers to/from Borough Road (A552) seem still there. There were another set to/from Conway Street (A553). The outbound one started alongside the one leading to Borough Road and then looped right round the outside of the tunnel marshalling area at high level in a semi-circle, across the inbound Borough Road flyover, then curving left onto and above the alignment of Conway Street, across Argyle Street, then descended into the centre of Conway Street. The inbound one started up the same ramp and over Argyle Street but then took a straight course descending to the toll booths.

It seems extraordinary that they were demolished. Their construction disrupted the centre of Birkenhead for a couple of years.
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35755
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Post by Bryn666 »

That certainly sounds funky - anyone with a 1970s map able to show this so we can get a full picture? :?:
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
wallasey
Member
Posts: 1322
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 18:31
Location: Wirral, NW
Contact:

Post by wallasey »

traffic_signals wrote:
Bryn666 wrote:
Birkenhead was similarly afflicted by peak traffic heading for the tunnel and at the same time as the Wallasey tunnel opened built a substantial flyover network for tunnel traffic. This has since been mainly demolished.
When did these get demolished? I had noticed the stub ramps there, where exactly did these lead to and are there any maps available?
yes, i am curious too!
It was just the Conway Street flyover which went. This was during the early 90's I think as part of "Wirral Citylands" which tried to regenerate Birkenhead TC. This worked well untill the money ran out leaving desolation around Conway Street.
User avatar
traffic-light-man
Member
Posts: 4728
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 18:45
Location: Liverpool, UK

Post by traffic-light-man »

bryn, still cant find those pics! :oops:
Simon
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35755
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Post by Bryn666 »

Here you go:

1980s and 1990s Liverpool (set)

:wink:

Lots of views of the famous GEC Bricks too.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
traffic-light-man
Member
Posts: 4728
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 18:45
Location: Liverpool, UK

Post by traffic-light-man »

Bryn666 wrote:Here you go:

1980s and 1990s Liverpool (set)

:wink:

Lots of views of the famous GEC Bricks too.
i see, thanks! :wink:
Simon
User avatar
True Yorkie
Banned
Posts: 6339
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 01:01
Location: the room with the computer in!

Post by True Yorkie »

a lot of demolition around liverpool eh?! :shock:
"God was probably very proud of Yorkshire when he had finished with it"
- Jeremy Clarkson
--
User avatar
M45 Tailback
Member
Posts: 1866
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 18:24
Location: Rugby, Warwickshire

Post by M45 Tailback »

Some very atmospheric pictures there! Thanks Bryn.
Steve S

Resurrect the A604!
User avatar
Derek
Member
Posts: 7189
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 10:44
Location: Norwich
Contact:

Post by Derek »

I also remember the Birkenhead flyovers being built, a huge area of town was razed to build them.

Included in the scheme was a huge multi lane queueing area for the toll booths, which was billed at the time as being computer controlled,but the system didn't work. For years most of the lanes were unused.

Derek
User avatar
A42_Sparks
Member
Posts: 958
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2003 23:20
Location: Ballymena, N Ireland

Post by A42_Sparks »

WHBM wrote:Birkenhead flyovers

I remember them going up around 1970 but was not there when they went - possibly 20 years later.

The flyovers to/from Borough Road (A552) seem still there. There were another set to/from Conway Street (A553). The outbound one started alongside the one leading to Borough Road and then looped right round the outside of the tunnel marshalling area at high level in a semi-circle, across the inbound Borough Road flyover, then curving left onto and above the alignment of Conway Street, across Argyle Street, then descended into the centre of Conway Street. The inbound one started up the same ramp and over Argyle Street but then took a straight course descending to the toll booths.

It seems extraordinary that they were demolished. Their construction disrupted the centre of Birkenhead for a couple of years.
WHBM is this the stub of the Conway St flyover? Google maps link.

Strange that they went to the bother of building it only to tear it down 20 years later :shock:
WHBM
Member
Posts: 9708
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 18:01
Location: London

Post by WHBM »

Yes that is it. You can also see the section of Conway Street west of the Argyle St roundabout with a grass central reservation which marks pretty much the extent of the 2-way ramp down to street level. You can pretty much interpolate the route it took round the extremity of the marshalling area. It gave a good view down onto the docks freight railway (now abandoned but you can see the weedy alignment in the photograph).

From the toll booths the ramp started as 2-lane, with gantry signs for the two routes, then it was down to one lane after the split. I see the right-hand lane on the initial section has just been hatched out.

The inbound ramp was just over Argyle Street then back down again about where the eastern of the two roundabouts is now. Both roundabouts are new; the eastern one has been built in the old queueing area, the western one with Argyle St used to be signals underneath the flyover.

Looking at the photo I cannot see what was achieved by tearing it down, makes me wonder if they had a structural problem. It was good quality work, not a rickety affair at all. Shame it could not have been picked up and used to replace the Hogarth Roundabout flyover in London !

We lived in Hoylake at the time, but in truth once the Wallasey tunnel opened our use of the route down Conway Street and into the Birkenhead tunnel evaporated. By the way, the centre where I took my driving test is just off the top of the linked photo !
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35755
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Post by Bryn666 »

Today I met a Tory councillor from the Wirral, and I asked about the rationale for demolishing the flyovers. He said there was little justification for it, but apparently they were only demolished within the last decade, not in the early 90s according to him.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
wallasey
Member
Posts: 1322
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 18:31
Location: Wirral, NW
Contact:

Post by wallasey »

Bryn666 wrote:Today I met a Tory councillor from the Wirral, and I asked about the rationale for demolishing the flyovers. He said there was little justification for it, but apparently they were only demolished within the last decade, not in the early 90s according to him.
Going off topic, dont suppose you mentioned their CU Bones situation?

The Wirral Globe did once show a picture of Chester Street during the time when the flyovers were being built; It is fair to say that the town has never really recovered since the mass demolision of Central Birkenhead.

Out of interest, there wern't any plans for Watson Street/Rendel Street/Exmouth Street and Charring X to be made into an inner relief route connecting the flyovers at Borough Road to the Dock Exit of the tunnel was there? If there were, its a shame nothing came of it!
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35755
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Post by Bryn666 »

Didn't get much chance to talk unfortunately - but the problem with the Queensway Tunnel is that without the flyovers the traffic situation there would be unbearable. As it stands, you can get from the west side of Birkenhead to central Liverpool in about 13 minutes, without the flyovers it's likely that'd take much longer with all the conflicts at the top of the A41.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
wallasey
Member
Posts: 1322
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 18:31
Location: Wirral, NW
Contact:

Post by wallasey »

Bryn666 wrote:As it stands, you can get from the west side of Birkenhead to central Liverpool in about 13 minutes, without the flyovers it's likely that'd take much longer with all the conflicts at the top of the A41.
Did you notice the top entry GEC Turtles on the underside of some of the flyovers?
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35755
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Post by Bryn666 »

As I went over them I didn't, no, sorry!

Will have to get a train to the Birkenhead side and get 'ground' photos of the toll plaza etc.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
wallasey
Member
Posts: 1322
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 18:31
Location: Wirral, NW
Contact:

Post by wallasey »

Theres at least 2. One under the Borough Road flyover and the other on the tunnel bound carrageway of the A41. You can see it from the bus if you sit on the right side.
User avatar
wallasey
Member
Posts: 1322
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 18:31
Location: Wirral, NW
Contact:

Post by wallasey »

Just been looking thru my aunts 1995 Liverpool A-Z and found that the Conway Street flyover is marked. Will get a scan up ASAP.

Now, I was down at the Princes Dock in Liverpool yesterday and found an alltogether different " (tunnel)" sign...

Image
William Jessop Way, Princes Dock, Lpool Now this could actually be correct seeing as there are restrictions on the tunnel? Do people agree?

*Apologies for poor quality, the sign is surrounded by construction sites making access difficult.
User avatar
traffic-light-man
Member
Posts: 4728
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 18:45
Location: Liverpool, UK

Post by traffic-light-man »

i cant see it! :cry:
Simon
User avatar
True Yorkie
Banned
Posts: 6339
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 01:01
Location: the room with the computer in!

Post by True Yorkie »

wallasey wrote:Just been looking thru my aunts 1995 Liverpool A-Z and found that the Conway Street flyover is marked. Will get a scan up ASAP.

Now, I was down at the Princes Dock in Liverpool yesterday and found an alltogether different " (tunnel)" sign...

Image
William Jessop Way, Princes Dock, Lpool Now this could actually be correct seeing as there are restrictions on the tunnel? Do people agree?

*Apologies for poor quality, the sign is surrounded by construction sites making access difficult.
hmmm, I did ask if folks knew whether cycles were allowed in the tunnels or not, if this sign is correct (ie. motorway restrictions) then that would answer my question. I saw the signs saying 'no pedestrians' earlier up in the thread.
"God was probably very proud of Yorkshire when he had finished with it"
- Jeremy Clarkson
--
Post Reply