A27 Beddingham improvments

SarahJ · Post by **SarahJ** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 17:48

I?ve just seen the Highways agency exhibition on the proposed improvements to the A27, including the railway bridge at the hotel where I work. The White Hart hotel in Lewes. This included plans for the bridges and improvements to the road between the Southerham and Beddingham roundabouts. The road is now not going to be D2, but S3, with 2 lanes westbound and 1 lane eastbound all the way between the two roundabouts. There will be no divide between the carriageways, except at certain junctions where there will be a short central reservations. The last time I?ve seen a design like this is on the A69 Greenhead and I?ve also seen the mess it causes when someone overtakes coming east, find themselves on the wrong side of a central reservation, and then there is nowhere for them to go. Looking at the plans I felt I was looking at an accident waiting to happen. Has anyone else seen the plans and what are their thoughts? The exhibition runs until Saturday pm (26<SUP>th</SUP>)<o:p></o:p>
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SarahJ<o:p></o:p>
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BTW While your there, come and take a look at the map on the wall near reception upstairs. Always worth a look for old map fans.<o:p></o:p>

Derek · Post by **Derek** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 13:10

>>
The road is now not going to be D2, but S3, with 2 lanes westbound and 1 lane eastbound all the way between the two roundabouts. There will be no divide between the carriageways, except at certain junctions where there will be a short central reservations. The last time I?ve seen a design like this is on the A69 Greenhead and I?ve also seen the mess it causes when someone overtakes coming east, find themselves on the wrong side of a central reservation, and then there is nowhere for them to go. Looking at the plans I felt I was looking at an accident waiting to happen. Has anyone else seen the plans and what are their thoughts?
>>
Oh no, not again is all I can say to this.
There's a similar bit of madness on the A47 just east of Leicester and it's caught me out more than once.
Derek

A21Will · Post by **A21Will** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 20:19

Along with the A303 and the A21 at tonbridge, the A27 is one of those roads that is endlessly prevaricated over, usually with the result being nothing at all. Like the stupid and lethal Illminster Bypass, it looks as iff the same mistake is about to be made. That is of course assuming that these plans come to anything...

Will road planners never learn?? S3s ARE LETHAL!!

Bryn666 · Post by **Bryn666** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 20:44

Build a crap road, then put Gatsos up before it even opens.
It's Batheaston II!

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 23:27

Once again the explanation for this decision seams to be the minister for roads afraid about the enviromental backlash. The "STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER'S DECISION" (http://www.highways.gov.uk/roads/projec ... /index.htm)
makes it clear that both the highways agency and East Sussex County council wanteded a D2 scheme butthe "Countryside Agency and the Sussex Downs Conservation Board objected to the proposal" along with many others. Apparently some people who responded to the consultation, tried to claim a bridge was not required and the money should be invested in public transport / used to make the exsisting crossing safer (which could only be done by installing full barriers)

daveA27 · Post by **daveA27** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 14:26

As I passed Beddingham crossing on the train this morning, I noticed that there were trailer mounted auger/drills in the fields on both sides of the crossing. I wondered if they were doing some kind ofground survey for the foundations of the bridge.
I love the way the design of the road is now going to "avoid the Southerham Grey Pit SSSI" (to quote the HA web site). I have the consultation brochure from the early 1990s Lewes to Polegate dualling (still provided for at the west end of the Polegate bypass), where it was intended to go straight through the waste land in theold pit to avoid spoiling any of the surrounding countryside!

Dave

daveA27 · Post by **daveA27** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 14:37

I forgot to ask if anyone might know the answer to this:
There are "red light" cameras mounted at the level crossing, but then there is another camera post about 6 feet in front of the active one on each side of the road. The only reason I can think of for needing tomove the cameras is if they managed to mount them in the wrong place (considering anyone 'jumping the lights' here would presumably be on the right hand side of the road to weave round the half barriers), so why would they want to move the cameras closer?
Dave

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 22:35

The biggest problem with this crossing is motorists trying to beat the barrier as it comes down, usually not succeeding and breaking the barrier instead. Of course the usual excuse is that the lights weren?t working but this is always proved false by the (network rail) crossing controls logging equipment.

Truvelo · Post by **Truvelo** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:47

It would help if the barriers didn't come down ten minutes before the train passed. A slight exaggeration but this sort of thing only encourages people to jump the barriers. In other countries the wait is far shorter.

daveA27 · Post by **daveA27** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 13:21

Truve1o <It would help if the barriers didn't come down ten minutes before the train passed. A slight exaggeration but this sort of thing only encourages people to jump the barriers. In other countries the wait is far shorter.>
Actually, the crossing at Beddingham is of the Automatic Half Barrier (AHB) type, which is set up so that the lights only start flashing about 30 seconds before the train arrives if it is travelling at line speed. Full gated crossings take longer, because the signaller has to make sure the barriers are down properly and no-one is trapped before the signals can be cleared to allow the train to approach.
I don't know much about European level crossings, but in general the attitude on railways out there is much more along the lines of "Well, you shouldn't get in the way" rather than the British "We'll do everything we can to make sure you're not in the way" which even takes longer to say!

Dave

SarahJ · Post by **SarahJ** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 14:19

What you have to know about Beddingham is that it's a busy line with trains every 15 mins each way. It was discussed a while ago that the barrier down time might have to be increased because so many cars were jumping. The problems are just simply to do with the 'never enough time' syndrome, which you see at any level crossing. I've seen cars and lorries duck under the barrier at Portslade, Ford (west sussex), Dagenham Dock (now gone) and even Lucker up in Northumberland. What people need to get in their head that they may save a min, but if a train is gonna hit your car, you better be out of it. Unless of course it's the sad tale of the Romny Hythe & Dymchurch railway. A van tried to jump the open crossing before the train, hit the train and killed the driver of the train.
So my view at crossings is, wait, enjoy the wait, the barrier will go up and then I'll be on my way, oh and pray it's not the barrier in Munich, just south of the main freight yard and on a main line, about 3 cars get through on that one before it comes down again!!!!
SJ

t1(M) · Post by **t1(M)** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 14:54

Other crossings with long waits are
Vine Road, Barnes Common- the road crosses just after the two lines fork, with levelcrossings on both branches.It is quite possible toget trapped between them, or to have thefirstcrossing clear just as the lights start on the second!

SarahJ · Post by **SarahJ** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 19:03

Since the level crossing crash near Aldermaston, Beddingham has once again been in the news. Of course most of the problems at Beddingham is just people jumping the lights and hitting the barrier, Plain and Simple. I wonder if the style of train hitting the car did lead to the accident being worse that it could have been. HST's have a pointed end, did this force the train up over the car, unlike where a flat nosed train would push the car? Perhaps just my idle mind?
SJ

daveA27 · Post by **daveA27** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:12

SarahJ <HST's have a pointed end, did this force the train up over the car, unlike where a flat nosed train would push the car?>
It is difficult to say. The pointed bit of an HST is only a fibreglass nose cone, so I would expect it to have broken up on impact. Most of the pictures I have seen are looking at the rear power car cab. The exact angle and speed of the impact would have had a bearing on whether it rode up, pushed the car along or off to one side.
I notice that in the last few months, the trains at Beddingham have had a lower speed limit put on them, as well as additional safety features like the cameras for road traffic.
Dave

SarahJ · Post by **SarahJ** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 17:43

An update:

Today I was showing someone from McAlpine round our hotel ready for another display on this project. From what he said, while the road is going to be built as S2+1, they are taking enough space for a D2. It also seems that the inspector was not allowed to consider a D2 project, only the plans on offer. I'll keep you informed how it's going.

BTW, we had quite a chat about the A303 Illminster by-pass and the rubbish that will be the Bexhill-Hastings link road.

SJ

AJK1982 · Post by **AJK1982** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 18:06

SarahJ wrote: From what he said, while the road is going to be built as S2+1, they are taking enough space for a D2.

Which beggars the question that if they are going to leave space for a D2 why not build it that way in the first place!

Yes this project desperately needs doing, but why bother with a half-hearted waste of money?!?

Lewis · Post by **Lewis** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 18:31

Luckily for me I dont use that part of the A27 anymore, but I do think the current imporvements will help. I think it will be converted to D2 when Beddingham to Polegate is done (probably in 2025

)

Tank · Post by **Tank** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 21:40

Went past today, and cones lie at the side of the road, ready for construction to begin sometime In October i beleive.

AJK1982 · Post by **AJK1982** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 16:19

Sorry to drag up a slightly old topic but....

According to the HA website work has started on this now. I am heartily pleased to see this finally happen, even if it isn't the D2 it should be....

Anyone been down that way to see if anything is actually happening yet?

Tank · Post by **Tank** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 17:53

AJK1982 wrote: Anyone been down that way to see if anything is actually happening yet?

Iv'e been past once in the dark and saw nothing

but a report in the local paper stated they have demolished the railway cottages once lived in by the local MP Norman Baker who was there to witness it.
I presume they've done alot more but im not exaclty sure where the bridge is going anyway