A38 Derby Junctions

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ps2mint
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A38 Derby Junctions

Post by ps2mint » Thu Jul 12, 2012 21:12

Hi,
I travel through Derby daily at the moment using the A38 and am interested in the Highways Agency's proposals for the three roundabouts. Personally I've never really had a problem at kings way, and this junction could be improved by signalising all approaches. Markeaton really needs to be replaced with an underpass or flyover and some sort of improvement is also required at little eaton. Maybe again the signals need to be made full time and the roundabout made larger.

I'll be interested to hear other people's views on these junctions!!

SC2
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by SC2 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 21:18

Definitely needed, but doesn't look likely to happen any time soon. A package of improvements is to begin shortly, but nothing major.

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Haydn1971
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A38 Derby Junctions

Post by Haydn1971 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 22:02

I did some work on them in 1999... Nothing happened yet, don't hold ya breath... Grade separated would be great, but to be perfectly honest, getting rid of the three roundabouts and replacing with carefully considered large scale high capacity signal controlled junctions would help tremendously, would be a lot cheaper, create less blight and keep local residents happier.
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by Chris56000 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 22:07

How about a scheme where only the A5111 and A61 roundabouts are grade-separated, with the A52 Ashbourne Road being bridged over or under and another link road provided to link the A52 to the A5111 junction?

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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by SC2 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 22:23

To be fair, I think access to the Markeaton Roundabout from the A38 is the least important of the three. If you're coming into Derby from the North, you'd use the A61, from the South the A516. Access to the Mackworth Estate and the New Zealand (still not convinced that's its proper name) area is given by that junction between Kingsway and Markeaton, so bridging the A52 over/under the A38 there might make sense. The only thing which would be really lost is easy access to Markeaton Park.

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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by Roadtripper_Ian » Thu Jul 12, 2012 23:47

I take it from looking at the layout of the southern roundabout that grade separation was envisaged, but what was the plan for the northern roundabout?
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by Comstock » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:31

swarkestonecauseway wrote: New Zealand (still not convinced that's its proper name)

There you go https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=New+Ze ... 75,,0,5.74

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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by SC2 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:20

:laugh: are there any proper signs pointing to it?

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Helvellyn
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by Helvellyn » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:35

swarkestonecauseway wrote:The only thing which would be really lost is easy access to Markeaton Park.
That's the most important one of the lot! Well, it was when I was a kid anyway, Markeaton Park was probably second to Alton Towers on my list of places to go.

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Nic
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by Nic » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:19

swarkestonecauseway wrote:To be fair, I think access to the Markeaton Roundabout from the A38 is the least important of the three. If you're coming into Derby from the North, you'd use the A61, from the South the A516. Access to the Mackworth Estate and the New Zealand (still not convinced that's its proper name) area is given by that junction between Kingsway and Markeaton, so bridging the A52 over/under the A38 there might make sense. The only thing which would be really lost is easy access to Markeaton Park.
I'd be intrigued as to traffic numbers. What the split of traffic coming down the A38 is, wrt going into to Derby, vs going round Derby. Always seemed when I made a semi-regular trip between Sheffield and Brum/Nuneaton, that the Markeaton roundabout was the worse. It also always seemed that most traffic, like me, was sticking to the A38 throughout.

It does seem like that roundabout is crying out for an overpass/Underpass.
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by SC2 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:48

Helvellyn wrote:That's the most important one of the lot! Well, it was when I was a kid anyway, Markeaton Park was probably second to Alton Towers on my list of places to go.
It always seemed to have an appeal disproportionately high for what it was :laugh:

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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by ianwallis » Fri Jul 13, 2012 16:21

There have been several schemes mooted over the past 20 years to my knowledge, particularly for the Markeaton roundabout which seems to create the most frustration although the Little Eaton roundabout can be bad for A61 traffic - queues all the way back to Pentagon and beyond sometimes, although to be fair there are other junctions along the length which affect traffic flows. I've never seen a satisfactory solution yet that gives any benefit sufficient to justify the cost, even when we (as the County Council) had responsibility for the Trunk Roads.

My over-riding concern now is that any "solution" will be at the expense of the City roads - A61, A52 especially as the HA and their agents seem hell bent on improving their network without any concern for the adjacent non-trunk roads despite saying all the right things (network management, yeah right!). I've lost count of the numbers of times I've mentioned the problems they created with this blinkered policy - for those in the area shall I just mention the M1 J25 and the road to Long Eaton in the evening peak, you know what I'm saying.

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Helvellyn
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by Helvellyn » Fri Jul 13, 2012 20:42

swarkestonecauseway wrote:
Helvellyn wrote:That's the most important one of the lot! Well, it was when I was a kid anyway, Markeaton Park was probably second to Alton Towers on my list of places to go.
It always seemed to have an appeal disproportionately high for what it was :laugh:
A lot of the appeal vanished when I fell in that disgusting lake in the playground area.

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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by SC2 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 21:12

Everyone in Derby must have done that in their youth :laugh:. I've done it as well.

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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by marknotgeorge » Sun Jul 15, 2012 00:43

I use Markeaton and Kingsway islands everyday on my way to work in Burton, living not very far at all from Markeaton Park. Going to work, I find that congestion is worst when traffic backs up along Ashbourne Road (A52 into the city), mainly caused by people who can't comprehend what the KEEP CLEAR markings in the road mean.

Kingsway island's not too bad, but Kingsway itself could definitely be improved be reinstating the two lanes up the hill to the retail park. The congestion from the retail park is caused by people insisting on turning right into Currys, which is a movement I'd prevent.

Unless you're planning dirty great flyovers, and I have trouble seeing where one's going to fit at Markeaton to be honest, Haydn's traffic lights idea seems good. They seem to have worked at the Cockpit.

Oh, and that lake in Mundy Play Centre (named after the family that owned Markeaton Hall)? I seem to recall it being drained last time I was there. It was truly rank. :hurl:
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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by SC2 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:45

marknotgeorge wrote:Oh, and that lake in Mundy Play Centre (named after the family that owned Markeaton Hall)? I seem to recall it being drained last time I was there. It was truly rank. :hurl:
Yeah it was. The last of the family donated the land to the people of Derby.

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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by Comstock » Sun Jul 15, 2012 15:09

marknotgeorge wrote: Kingsway itself could definitely be improved be reinstating the two lanes up the hill to the retail park. The congestion from the retail park is caused by people insisting on turning right into Currys, which is a movement I'd prevent.
Yes. It's classic 'prisoners dilema'. Collectively everything would move faster if no-one turned right into Currys. But individually once you have queued up behind all the other right turners, you are better off turning right yourself.

At the very least I'd ban right turns into Currys in the last few weeks before Christmas.

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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by Edensor » Mon Jul 16, 2012 16:06

Whatever they have planned for Markeaton roundabout, it has to include a new system of getting cars into/out of the garage/McDonalds alongside - it is a complete mess and there are daily occurences of very near misses as people get frustrated with not being able to get out onto the A52.

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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by Graham » Tue Jul 17, 2012 23:05

Haydn1971 wrote:to be perfectly honest, getting rid of the three roundabouts and replacing with carefully considered large scale high capacity signal controlled junctions would help tremendously, would be a lot cheaper, create less blight and keep local residents happier.
This would improve traffic flows during peak times, but at the expense of creating delays of several minutes at all other times.

It reminds me of the junction at the southern end of the Gloucester Ring Road. When it was a roundabout, I must have travelled through this junction hundreds of times - in all diections, without once ever being held up for more than a few seconds. Then it was turned into one of these "high capacity signal controlled junctions", and now I get delayed for a couple of minutes every time I pass through it.

I do wonder whether someone could come up with a junction design that combines the best of both worlds. Using Gloucester as an example again, the Elmbridge Court roundabout and the Walls roundabout have part-time traffic lights. This has the significant benefit of avoiding pointless delays outside of peak hours, and I am amazed that this concept is not used more widely.

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Re: A38 Derby Junctions

Post by SC2 » Wed Jul 18, 2012 00:00

The irony is that your suggestion is in place on one of the Derby junctions, and we are all clammering for it to go

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