Chris, I am sure you are right, and that the engineers are indeed out there. Trouble is those in charge of the dosh seem to have a complete paucity of ambition and funding has been extremely sparse in recent decades. I do now see a stirring of activity, road and rail that I haven't seen for many years, certainly since Kenneth Clarke stated, as Chancellor of the Exchequer in the Major government that they were not going to build any more roads as they only filled up with traffic. There is a very big rail programme as well as road starting up.There's so much cynical nonsense on SABRE at the moment. Whenever there's a thread about something like this, someone chips in with "but we don't build roads any more" or "yes but we never build tunnels in this country" or "we just don't have the talent to build something like this". We're designing and building more roads and upgrade schemes now than at any point in my lifetime and I don't understand the doom-laden statements that keep coming up to the effect that no roads ever get built and there's nobody left who would know how to do it anyway. It's laughably untrue.
A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade
- lefthandedspanner
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade
On the contrary, there's nothing on the M25 like Cherwell Valley Interchange (pre-rebuild) or the Bredbury scissors, which are textbook examples of shockingly bad junction design.Johnathan404 wrote:More importantly, the interchange designs on the M25 are appalling! This thread is about how bad the A3/M25 interchange is and you appear to be suggesting the only decent thing we can do is invite the same team back to have another go.
Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade
Yes, it is nice. Shame there's not more capacity on the M25 though to stop it being a pinch point.jackal wrote:And M40! Maybe my favourite as it's relatively simple in structural terms for what it does.Had to be saidChris5156 wrote:If you want proof that we still have the "know how" to design complex interchanges, just take a look at some of the design options for Girton Interchange that were worked up in the design phase for the A14 upgrade - not built, no, but all buildable designs to the correct spec. Look also at the elaborate free-flowing interchanges (including a four-level stack) in the Lower Thames Crossing designs, and of course let's not forget that one option for Wisley Interchange - for which designs were produced - was a proper four-level stack which involved threading two levels of flyover across the top of the existing three-level stacked roundabout.
There's so much cynical nonsense on SABRE at the moment. Whenever there's a thread about something like this, someone chips in with "but we don't build roads any more" or "yes but we never build tunnels in this country" or "we just don't have the talent to build something like this". We're designing and building more roads and upgrade schemes now than at any point in my lifetime and I don't understand the doom-laden statements that keep coming up to the effect that no roads ever get built and there's nobody left who would know how to do it anyway. It's laughably untrue.
- Johnathan404
- Member
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade
You missed my favourite one, M42 J6, with the engineering comment:Chris5156 wrote:If you want proof that we still have the "know how" to design complex interchanges, just take a look at some of the design options for Girton Interchange that were worked up in the design phase for the A14 upgrade - not built, no, but all buildable designs to the correct spec. Look also at the elaborate free-flowing interchanges (including a four-level stack) in the Lower Thames Crossing designs, and of course let's not forget that one option for Wisley Interchange - for which designs were produced - was a proper four-level stack which involved threading two levels of flyover across the top of the existing three-level stacked roundabout.
hachapurik wrote:Nevertheless I'm proud of it
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- Johnathan404
- Member
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade
A four level stack or even half of one was always going to be an impractical pipe dream.On page 1 of this thread I wrote:When I opened this thread I was expecting it to be eleven months of work to build four left-turn filter lanes... I'm now convinced.
An enlarged roundabout is not exciting and it is not efficient but it is a marginal improvement and buildable.
I have websites about: motorway services | Fareham
Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade
Unbelievable.
The assessment report admits that the scheme as proposed will run out of capacity 14 years after opening (2037, following 2023 opening), and yet to save £35m we will be saddled with a signalised roundabout at one of the nation's most important interchanges for decades to come.
The assessment report admits that the scheme as proposed will run out of capacity 14 years after opening (2037, following 2023 opening), and yet to save £35m we will be saddled with a signalised roundabout at one of the nation's most important interchanges for decades to come.
Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade
Well that's just the most appalling waste of time and money on design and consultation work in order to decide on building a different version of what's already there.
What a joke.
What a joke.
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade
Quite simply, unbelievable.
In any other country this would be regarded as totally inadequate solution at one of the major strategic junctions in the South East.
I give up.....
In any other country this would be regarded as totally inadequate solution at one of the major strategic junctions in the South East.
I give up.....
Formerly ‘guvvaA303’
Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade
We'll see. The roundabout got only 29% support (the four-level option got 64%). That's sub-Chichester levels of support.Johnathan404 wrote:A four level stack or even half of one was always going to be an impractical pipe dream.On page 1 of this thread I wrote:When I opened this thread I was expecting it to be eleven months of work to build four left-turn filter lanes... I'm now convinced.
An enlarged roundabout is not exciting and it is not efficient but it is a marginal improvement and buildable.
Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade
What's your take? Do you think they're worried about the environmental battle and opting for the scheme with the smallest footprint?jackal wrote:We'll see. The roundabout got only 29% support (the four-level option got 64%). That's sub-Chichester levels of support.Johnathan404 wrote:A four level stack or even half of one was always going to be an impractical pipe dream.
An enlarged roundabout is not exciting and it is not efficient but it is a marginal improvement and buildable.
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade
Without wishing to sound like I'm making sweeping assumptions here, I do detect the distinct whiff of nimyism from the locals, as looking at the report statistics nearly a third of respondants are over 65 and the report freely aknowledges that a large number of responses are from people who do not even use the junction, just living nearby. For such a major infrastructure project that is effectively nationally important, such concerns should not have overriding priority.Chris5156 wrote:What's your take? Do you think they're worried about the environmental battle and opting for the scheme with the smallest footprint?
What a colossal waste of money into studies and designs to merely kick the can down the road for another 15 years. Farce is the word that comes to mind.
Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade
Let's have a review of a review....
Spent the missing £35m there.
Spent the missing £35m there.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade
Why not save an additional £35m by just adding left turn filter lanes to the existing roundabout without having to build any new bridges.
How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
Big and complex.
Big and complex.
Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade
They'd have been better off retracting all the options and going back to the design phase again ...
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade
It certainly will be a massive amount of disruption for little gain. However I imagine the RHS is very pleased.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade
Awful, so all the money has been spent on the local access improvements at the cost of the improvements to Junction 10.
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade
With the quite impressive A14 and A1 improvements further north, and the Hindhead Tunnel on the A3 itself, I was hoping that perhaps the government would actually deliver on their announcement to make Wisley a "freeflow interchange". Sadly, it looks like HE penny pinching here means the chance to properly improve Wisley has been squandered for another couple of decades. I'm just thankful that I won't be caught up in the years of traffic jams (unless my circumstances change) for what seems to me to be not much payoff at the end.