Northern Ireland vs Republic of Ireland

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

User avatar
murphaph
Member
Posts: 2834
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 18:43
Location: Berlin

Post by murphaph » Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:40

Located wrote:See they have replaced some of the existing M1 and M50 gantrys for the port tunnel, maybe that should be in another post.
Which ones?

User avatar
Located
Member
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 23:18
Location: Germany

Post by Located » Thu Jan 04, 2007 13:04

heading to J3 on the old M50 from J4, there is now a hybrid version of gantry, with the Malahide Gantry Gone and replaced with two individual lane gantrys, and the original Belfast Airport Gantry for the other two lanes.

Heading south From J1 (Airport) on the M1 to J3 (M50-N32-M1) on the M50, the gantry is changed. But it's not individual gantry's, it goes over two lanes, maybe I'm wrong, it was raining heavy, wow, maybe they are changing their minds again about the cráppy new gantries.

There are loads of new signs on the N32 M50 junction (roundabout) but with no motorway number for the Recalssified M1 to M50. Just says Dublin Port and City Centre in Blue I think. the M50 sign points to the old M50.

User avatar
murphaph
Member
Posts: 2834
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 18:43
Location: Berlin

Post by murphaph » Thu Jan 04, 2007 13:20

Located wrote:heading to J3 on the old M50 from J4, there is now a hybrid version of gantry, with the Malahide Gantry Gone and replaced with two individual lane gantrys, and the original Belfast Airport Gantry for the other two lanes.
So is this gantry now gone?
Image
Located wrote:Heading south From J1 (Airport) on the M1 to J3 (M50-N32-M1) on the M50, the gantry is changed. But it's not individual gantry's, it goes over two lanes, maybe I'm wrong, it was raining heavy, wow, maybe they are changing their minds again about the cráppy new gantries.
You sure it's not this one which was always there?
Image
Located wrote:There are loads of new signs on the N32 M50 junction (roundabout) but with no motorway number for the Recalssified M1 to M50. Just says Dublin Port and City Centre in Blue I think. the M50 sign points to the old M50.
Must check that out.

User avatar
Located
Member
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 23:18
Location: Germany

Post by Located » Thu Jan 04, 2007 13:30

Only half of the Top picuted gantry is gone, Malahie N32 half has been replaced by two new individual lane gantries with the Middle gantry now green N32 and the right one Blue for the Tunnel and city. So it's a half n'half. New plus old.

Yep the Second Pic the gantry is gone, replaced. Completely

User avatar
Achmelvic
Member
Posts: 1298
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 21:50
Location: Leeds, Yorkshire

Post by Achmelvic » Thu Jan 04, 2007 13:41

So I'm guessing that the clearest indication that you'll have crossed the border on the new N1/A1 will just be style of signs changing along with signs informing of a speed limit change from imperial to metric plus the line at the edge of the inside lane going from white to yellow and vis-versa.

User avatar
murphaph
Member
Posts: 2834
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 18:43
Location: Berlin

Post by murphaph » Thu Jan 04, 2007 13:41

Cheers for that, can you recall if the replacement is according to the TSM?

User avatar
Located
Member
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 23:18
Location: Germany

Post by Located » Thu Jan 04, 2007 15:41

TSM?
What TSM, it's 11 years old, and all these new Gantry's don't comply with it, except the ones on the N25 in Cork, they are new but to the old way and look allot better and clearer. It's on the southern ring road.

The new TSM is not out yet as far as I know, but some companies must have access to a draft of it, cos there doing these new gantrys,

That doesn't really matter, it's not like many of the old gantries complied with the 1996 TSM

User avatar
murphaph
Member
Posts: 2834
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 18:43
Location: Berlin

Post by murphaph » Thu Jan 04, 2007 17:07

Well, it sort of does matter. The TSM exists for a reason and even though it's old it's good. Some LA's are surprisingly good at it while others are simply shocking. Anyway, I took a spin out to the signs myself today and took some decent pics. Can't seem to upload them right now though? Anybody know what the max pixel size is now since the changeover? The replacement over the M1 mainline southbound is surprisingly adherent to the TSM.

User avatar
murphaph
Member
Posts: 2834
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 18:43
Location: Berlin

A few pics from today's outing...

Post by murphaph » Thu Jan 04, 2007 17:55

Approaching the M50/M1 junction from the N32 (Steven, I fear he secret M32 may be no more, at least as far as the signage goes!).....

Image

Approaching the M50/M1 junction from the 'old' M50 headed clockwise, you can see where the old panel was located, Located! It has indeed been replaced by two panels intended to make the way to the tunnel clearer.....

Image

Headed southbound on the M1 approaching the M50....

Image

View from under M50/M1 interchange looking towards s/b onslip to 'old' M1, present M50...

Image

same spot....

Image

and the tunnel itself (note the traffic lights on the northound onslip, presumably to halt traffic to allow emergency services to access the tunnel from the 'wrong' side)...

Image

Trucks descending into the tunnel on their way to Holyhead!.....

Image

A first for Ireland? Traffic lights at the bottom of a motorway slip road, set to 'give way' flashing ambers as one would expect in Ireland.....

Image[/img]

csd
Member
Posts: 393
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2003 17:55
Location: Dublin

Post by csd » Thu Jan 04, 2007 18:49

Great pics Philip, interesting to see they're moving back towards a more logical format for gantries. Wonder when they'll replace the existing abberations on the N2, N7, M11, N25, and M50.

/csd

PS
I hope you weren't illegally stopped in the hard shoulder while you took those pics :D

User avatar
murphaph
Member
Posts: 2834
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 18:43
Location: Berlin

Post by murphaph » Thu Jan 04, 2007 19:12

csd wrote:I hope you weren't illegally stopped in the hard shoulder while you took those pics :D
Moi? Sure you could stop for a picnic at the side of a motorway and the guards wouldn't say boo to you! Anyway, logical or notthe first pic is a disaster. No "M50" indicated on the legend panel for the first exit and critically, no motorway symbol to warn prohibited traffic not to take ANY of those exits which all lead to motorways! I wrote to the city council about it.

I am pleased to see closer adherence to the TSM on those gantries though, no needless repetition for a start!

User avatar
Located
Member
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 23:18
Location: Germany

Post by Located » Thu Jan 04, 2007 23:21

About the TSM, I'm not criticizing that there is one. The 1996 TSM is good but is not comprehensive enough. Not enough examples, and warning signs. I'm not talking about sign design there, but placing and locating for normal small roads. Try fitting a signage scheme onto a small road. Starts to do your head in. It says certain signs are not needed on R roads, but I beg to differ, and try and put them in as allot of R roads are N roads in disguise in terms of traffic and as strategic links for the National network.

I've been waiting for the revision for ages now, hate working with old stuff.

And the road works section shows oil barrels for road works!!!!
I think not!!!!!!!!

And cycleways and cycletraks need more detail.

I think the traffic lights are more to prevent traffic queuing in the tunnel, and being a potential hazard. Cos each large ship can have over 10k's of lorries back to back.

I don't like the full green panel on motorways. But the signage is an improvement.

Notice the aren't signing the number designation before the junction anymore for this junction.

Hopefully though this represents a change for gantries in ireland after that fiasco over the past two years. But have they changed the northbound (Anti-Clockwise) gantry going from J2 to J3 or is it still nass road type. Cos each panel for all lanes had a massive "M50" above it, confusing when the M50 goes left and M1 is straight for the other two lanes.

User avatar
Steven
SABRE Maps Coordinator
Posts: 15545
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 20:39
Location: Wolverhampton, Staffordshire
Contact:

Re: A few pics from today's outing...

Post by Steven » Thu Jan 04, 2007 23:52

murphaph wrote:Steven, I fear he secret M32 may be no more, at least as far as the signage goes!
Boo, hiss!

Are the "start of motorway ahead" sign and the blue eastbound signs still there, or have they been replaced too?
Steven

Pathetic Motorways: tastier than a well-chewed slipper.
Founder Member, SABRE ex-Presidents' Corner

User avatar
murphaph
Member
Posts: 2834
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 18:43
Location: Berlin

Re: A few pics from today's outing...

Post by murphaph » Fri Jan 05, 2007 00:09

Steven wrote:
murphaph wrote:Steven, I fear he secret M32 may be no more, at least as far as the signage goes!
Boo, hiss!

Are the "start of motorway ahead" sign and the blue eastbound signs still there, or have they been replaced too?
I didn't travel far enough down the N32 (I live in west Dublin) to check for the motorway ahead sign but I'd say that's still there however all blue westbound signage on the actual stretch between the roundabouts are gone and replaced with green backed, blue patched/panelled signs (the correct type) and indeed, this sign has been correctly patched now with N32 on a green patch covering over M50.

Image

This sign however remains!
Image

odlum
Member
Posts: 1595
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 15:07
Location: Ireland

Re: A few pics from today's outing...

Post by odlum » Fri Jan 05, 2007 00:24

Nice Pics!

The gantries on the M50 and M1 should not be there to much longer anyway as the M50 upgrade phase 2 begins in April so I wouldnt worry about the patching and the like in the long term. :bulb:

Michael
Former Member
Posts: 884
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2001 16:57
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland

Post by Michael » Fri Jan 05, 2007 17:28

MDTyKe wrote:The reason for asking though, is one day while passing I noticed a truck near the site entrance with a big metal bridge. Now, it may have been for railway, but it did intreague (sp) me as to whether it was for the border crossing.
Easiest way to explain where the border crossing is is that when travelling northbound, you pass a big car park on your left (with an office for Irish VRT/possibly some Irish customs offices, but that isn't indicated) that may have formerly been the location of the RoI customs booth. After that, there's a small hut on the right hand side for purposes unknown, then a tiny bridge over a small stream. That bridge is the exact border on the current A1/N1. Don't go by the road markings, as the NI ones extend a few feet into the RoI.

As far as I can tell, there won't be any marking of the border - it's deep within the so called "Bandit Country" and any marking of the border may quickly get removed. I can't seem to get a reply from anyone in the RoI about the issue of signing, but the UK Government believes that there is no need to mark the frontier due to being part of the Common Travel Area, with maps available for people who want to know the exact location of the frontier.

There will be RoI 120km/h signs and UK "SPEED LIMITS IN MPH" signs though.

A303Paul
Member
Posts: 5222
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 06:49

Re: A few pics from today's outing...

Post by A303Paul » Fri Jan 05, 2007 17:35

Steven wrote:
murphaph wrote:Steven, I fear he secret M32 may be no more, at least as far as the signage goes!
Boo, hiss!

Are the "start of motorway ahead" sign and the blue eastbound signs still
there, or have they been replaced too?
Don't worry Steven......................
IrlRon wrote:

Or just do what was originally done, and sign the road as a motorway from the previous roundabout. Granted, the roundabout is itself an escape road for non m-way traffic, but given that all the exits are for motorways, it might as well be motorway as well.



According to the Statutory Instrument published last year, the M50/M1/N32 roundabout is under motorway regulations; and the N32 commences under motorway regulations.

The signage is a randomly chosen hodgepodge of junk.
_________________
IRISH ROADS - website directory of roads and road projects in Ireland.

User avatar
murphaph
Member
Posts: 2834
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 18:43
Location: Berlin

Post by murphaph » Fri Jan 05, 2007 18:10

Michael wrote:
MDTyKe wrote:The reason for asking though, is one day while passing I noticed a truck near the site entrance with a big metal bridge. Now, it may have been for railway, but it did intreague (sp) me as to whether it was for the border crossing.
Easiest way to explain where the border crossing is.....
Actually he was refering to a possible bridge deck on the back of a lorry I presume at the site of the new N1/A1. I'm guessing as he drives Newry-Dindalk every day that he knows where the current border is.

Speaking of that spot, it's terribly bleak around there, something I just don't like about that stretch of road. Maybe it's because that stupid petrol station is on the "wrong" side of the border and fuel costs a bloody fortune in it! They'll lose out big time when the new road opens, virtually nobody will use the old road which might actually make it a nice spot to live along again.

User avatar
Zoney
Member
Posts: 1252
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 14:15
Location: Limerick, Ireland
Contact:

Post by Zoney » Fri Jan 05, 2007 18:26

Haven't been up along there since the work started, but the previous environment was really grim and gritty, not pretty on either side of the border. That said, I don't think I can recollect ever having been along there in sunshine, which rather re-enforces the poor image. It's certainly an area of natural beauty too - but the hills are in some ways oppressive.

But on a trip a couple years ago; leaving Derry to cross the border was the same - pretty depressing. It was such crummy narrow country road across wild enough terrain.

The new N1/A1 looks like it'll be a nice elegant crossing, I guess the new road will be at a bit of a higher elevation (at the least on a proper embankment) which will be nice.

Michael
Former Member
Posts: 884
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2001 16:57
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland

Post by Michael » Fri Jan 05, 2007 19:05

murphaph wrote:Speaking of that spot, it's terribly bleak around there, something I just don't like about that stretch of road. Maybe it's because that stupid petrol station is on the "wrong" side of the border and fuel costs a bloody fortune in it! They'll lose out big time when the new road opens, virtually nobody will use the old road which might actually make it a nice spot to live along again.
There's a petrol station just south of the border too - but it's not signposted or marked well at all. To explain it, you have to take the first right after the border southbound, then head up the hill towards Jonesborough. It's about a minute off the main road. Last time I was there, they were selling petrol at about 3-4 cents more than the garages in Dundalk.

To be honest, I almost feel like an enviromentalist when talking about that section of road - I think the new road is going to place a huge scar on the landscape, particularly as the old road blends in so well. I can appreciate the need for the road, but I can't help but think that it's going to really detract from the area.

Post Reply