A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

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Achmelvic
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A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by Achmelvic » Mon Sep 22, 2008 16:53

I've done a search and can't find a dedicated topic for the A1 motorway upgrade project for Dishforth-Leeming-Barton so I've decided to start one to try and keep discussion separate from the Bramham-Wetherby thread.

To start us off here are some webpages of interest:
Project homepage on the HA site
Press Release from the HA from last Friday (19th Sept)
Official Statutory Instrument for the project which will become legal this Thursday (25th Sept)

So it does all look to be on track and work can start anytime after Thursday AFAIK. Atkins have been included as the main contractor since early on in an effort to save time so hopefully we'll see work starting on the first half of the project (Dishforth-Leeming) before Christmas.

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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by tibsy » Mon Sep 22, 2008 18:05

Hi

there is a thread that i started named something like "A1 Dishforth to Barton (near Scoth Corner)".

Anyway, I Would like to know when work is supposed to be starting - any clues anyone?

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CJ
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by CJ » Mon Sep 22, 2008 19:46

Last I heard, site clearance is to take place in the next few months, with construction starting in the new year.

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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by wrinkly » Mon Sep 22, 2008 22:05

I can't instantly remember where to find the HA spreadsheet of schemes that somebody found, but if I remember correctly, the last time I looked at it it said January 2009.

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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by Mark Hewitt » Tue Sep 23, 2008 08:58

As mentioned in the other thread, place your bets now as to if Leeming to Barton will actually be done, or will a change in government and spending cuts see it delayed yet again.

Government don't seem to mind stretches of substandard D2 sitting between motorways.
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by Achmelvic » Tue Sep 23, 2008 09:03

Mark Hewitt wrote:As mentioned in the other thread, place your bets now as to if Leeming to Barton will actually be done, or will a change in government and spending cuts see it delayed yet again.

Government don't seem to mind stretches of substandard D2 sitting between motorways.
Depressingly I can foresee it, we'll have a nice D3M from south of the M62 heading north then just giving up at the A684! 'The Yorkshire Gap' anyone???

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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by jackal » Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:36

wrinkly wrote:I can't instantly remember where to find the HA spreadsheet of schemes that somebody found, but if I remember correctly, the last time I looked at it it said January 2009.
One from August does indeed say January 2009 for Dishforth to Leeming, with '2011/2012' for Leeming to Barton.

In other words, Leeming to Barton will be up to the Tories, so there's a good chance people's fears about a gap in the motorway will be realized. This isn't a party political point - I just mean new goverments tend to put stuff on hold to reappraise it.

(Incidentally, you'll be able to get a September copy of the tracker if you have a look around on the HA partnernet - that's how I found the August one. Have to say, it wasn't much different from the July one RichardA35 linked to!)

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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by Mark Hewitt » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:22

jackal wrote: In other words, Leeming to Barton will be up to the Tories, so there's a good chance people's fears about a gap in the motorway will be realized. This isn't a party political point - I just mean new goverments tend to put stuff on hold to reappraise it.
The justification they will use of course is that the the A1(M) north of Barton is D2 anyway so making Leeming to Barton D3M will fail some cost-benefit analysis (the type of thing where you can make it find what you want it to find)
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by Achmelvic » Wed Sep 24, 2008 13:01

Mark Hewitt wrote:
The justification they will use of course is that the the A1(M) north of Barton is D2 anyway so making Leeming to Barton D3M will fail some cost-benefit analysis (the type of thing where you can make it find what you want it to find)
Aye I bet they'll helpfully forget to consider the significant number of tractors between Leeming & Barton. Plus if they're not going to dual the A66 then there isn't even the justification that there are 2x D2 roads meeting at Scotch Corner...

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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by jackal » Wed Sep 24, 2008 13:06

Even if they do use an argument like that, it still wouldn't justify all the breaks in the central reserve. I don't think there's any other road quite as major as this that's so festooned with dangerous right turns. So maybe the worst case scenario would be Leeming to Barton going on hold and then coming back in some watered down form that provides a fully grade separated/LILOed D2.

South of the A6136 junction at Catterick is especially bad, so they might have to go offline there, but northwards up to scotch corner there's only one or two breaks in the reserve, so if there was a cheapo alternative scheme that section could stay as it is with just minor changes (a LILO and/or a compact GSJ).

Of course, it's a bit morbid to be talking about this before the current plan is dead - I very much hope they stick with it, as I think three lanes and hard shoulder is justified given that there is considerably more traffic here than there is on the two lane motorway after scotch corner.

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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by MatthewB6323 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 15:58

jackal wrote: Of course, it's a bit morbid to be talking about this before the current plan is dead - I very much hope they stick with it, as I think three lanes and hard shoulder is justified given that there is considerably more traffic here than there is on the two lane motorway after scotch corner.
Having read the inspectors' report, I very much doubt the LILO scenario will be imposed on the A1 between Leeming and Barton - there were serious reservations at the Highways Agency's lack of provision for a local access road between Scotch Corner and Barton, and a few other design deficiencies.

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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by Mark Hewitt » Thu Sep 25, 2008 08:53

If they don't decide to upgrade to D3M we might get a watered down scheme such as closing all the central reserve gaps and building a couple more GSJ's. Perhaps even providing a little bit of a hard shoulder, so we'd end up with something between a D2 and D2M.
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by MatthewB6323 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 09:42

Mark Hewitt wrote:If they don't decide to upgrade to D3M we might get a watered down scheme such as closing all the central reserve gaps and building a couple more GSJ's. Perhaps even providing a little bit of a hard shoulder, so we'd end up with something between a D2 and D2M.
I really think that we'll get the full scheme, as expanded to accommodate proper S2 LARs (there was one section near Catterick, according to my reading of the inspector's report, where the HA proposed an S1 LAR with passing places, which could not have coped with diversion traffic in an emergency) and the Scotch Corner-Barton LAR so that non-motorway traffic can by-pass Middleton Tyas. The Conservative government is nothing to be afraid of here - the road passes through solid Conservative seats, and the motorway scheme has been very popular with most people in the area for years.

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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by Achmelvic » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:58

MatthewB6323 wrote:The Conservative government is nothing to be afraid of here - the road passes through solid Conservative seats, and the motorway scheme has been very popular with most people in the area for years.
There is that to consider, Leeming-Scotch Corner is 100% within the constituency of William 'Billy-Boy' Hague AFAIK and he is likely to have a cabinet seat in any new Tory government. Having grown up in the area I know how much of a local issue the A1 is, if the Tories were to scrap the project it would likely damage his ratings, however that would be after an election at which point he may care less. As my parents are still constituents I would be tempted to go along to one of his surgeries and have a word if it was scrapped! ;)

My concern is that the Tories are trying to sell themselves as 'green' etc and with a major economic downturn they'll be pressured to cut spending and transport is always one of the first times to get hit. Of course a working transport system is quite important to economic recovery and employment but that's another topic.

Anyhow let's all wait and see if/when there is an election and who gets in and what they decide to do, all of which could be a year away yet.

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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by NICK 647063 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 01:16

I used thirsk railway station today and on leaving the car park on to the A61 carlton road i noticed a new direction sign with thirsk A61 to the left and ripon A61 and A1(M) to the right, well at the moment the A61 junction is with the A1 and not the A1(M) so is this maybe a little forward thinking!!! as the A1 upgrade is due to start in spring.

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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by Bryn666 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 04:17

Whilst the A1 in North Yorks is pretty low standard, it at least manages to have a vague attempt at a hard shoulder and is much less claustrophobic than the other infamous dual carriageway that was replaced by motorway in the 1990s - the A74 Gretna-Lesmahagow dinosaur.

That isn't to say I am opposed to it being widened and turned into a motorway; this improvement is long overdue! I do wonder just how bad the old Dishforth-Walshford section was if it got bypassed in 1995 as one of the first RtP M25-Newcastle upgrades of the A1.
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by Mark Hewitt » Wed Dec 10, 2008 08:31

It's actually quite a nice road to drive when the traffic is reasonably quiet. But on a weekday it is frustratingly slow. It's quite often that from Dishforth to Barton I don't top 55mph for the whole way.

At Dishforth where it goes from 3 lanes to two drivers often race down the outside lane to get ahead of that last lorry before the crawl along starts.
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by wrinkly » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:34

Bryn666 wrote:I do wonder just how bad the old Dishforth-Walshford section was if it got bypassed in 1995 as one of the first RtP M25-Newcastle upgrades of the A1.
It was (except for the Boroughbridge bypass) somewhat wigglier than Dishforth-Scotch Corner, but otherwise very similar. The wiggliness is still generally visible in the alignment of what is now the A168. This was probably a factor in it getting done earlier, but I imagine the main factor was the extra traffic from the A168/A19.

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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by DavidBrown » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:01

NICK 647063 wrote:I used thirsk railway station today and on leaving the car park on to the A61 carlton road i noticed a new direction sign with thirsk A61 to the left and ripon A61 and A1(M) to the right, well at the moment the A61 junction is with the A1 and not the A1(M) so is this maybe a little forward thinking!!! as the A1 upgrade is due to start in spring.
That's intersting - especially since NOT ONE sign in Thirsk (not even those on the trunk A168) had been updated to take note of the A1(M) upgrade south of Dishforth, which opened in 1995/96. I left Thirsk in 2003...
:roll:

As for the old A1 south of Dishforth - Dishforth to Borobridge was OK, if busy. South of Borobridge, it was of poor standard - similar to the Walshford to Wetherby stretch. Bear in mind that Walshford to Wetherby was proposed to have been built pretty much as soon as Walshford - Dishforth had been finished. This would have meant, apart from the Wetherby bypass, a D3M all the way from Dishforth the the then under-construction M1.

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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by NICK 647063 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 19:17

That's intersting - especially since NOT ONE sign in Thirsk (not even those on the trunk A168) had been updated to take note of the A1(M) upgrade south of Dishforth, which opened in 1995/96. I left Thirsk in 2003...

Well the signs at the A170/A61 roundabout have been replaced in recent years to direct traffic to the A168 and A1(M) south but this will have been done by north yorkshire county council as the A170 is not trunk, as for the A168 i know the signs after thirsk have A1(M) on them, all signs on the A61 towards ripon always have A1 north on so thats why it was weird to see a new one there with A1(M) on before the motorway is even built, usally takes them years to replace them!!

Also heading from thirsk to head on to the A1 north i use the A61 then take the B6267 to join the A1 at sinderby, when i last took this route i had 8 cars in front and all 8 took the B6267 to the A1 north so when the motorway upgrade is complete i take it to go north we will have to head south on the A61 to the new J50 and then join the A1 north, i think the B6267 will become quite quiet and the A61 through baldersby will notice an increase in traffic!!

when i use the A1 i always find it amazing how many lorries use the road, using the new A1(M) between wetherby and walshford its hard to believe all that traffic used the old D2 i lived beside that section for a few years and always remember the queues as the D3M went to D2 at walshford.

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