Is this the UK's lowest speed limit?

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Comstock
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Is this the UK's lowest speed limit?

Post by Comstock » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:34

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&hne ... 88.52,,0,5

Not sure if the 'mph' on the sign makes it unenforceable, but that is slllooowww!!

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Lockwood
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Re: Is this the UK's lowest speed limit?

Post by Lockwood » Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:21

The fact that it's below 20 and not a multiple of 10 makes it unenforcable too, AIUI

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Re: Is this the UK's lowest speed limit?

Post by ravenbluemoon » Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:00

That would be a real clutch killer!
Also could you be done for speeding while walking?!?! :lol:
"Down at the Ferrybridge junction
Beneath the cooling towers a man stood hitching a ride
And in the long grass at the side of the road his son was laid asleep
He said - nothing's left to keep us in the city where we come from
Take us far away from here - looking for work and the wishing-well"

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Re: Is this the UK's lowest speed limit?

Post by rhyds » Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:05

ravenbluemoon wrote:That would be a real clutch killer!
Also could you be done for speeding while walking?!?! :lol:
Just leave it in 1st and let the engine idle. That'll give you ~2mph easily...

This talk of slow speed limits reminds me of my old Alfa Romeo 146. The spedometer on that didn't actually rest at 0 mph from the factory, it started from IIRC 10 mph. So if you were in a 5mph speed limit you had no idea of your speed.
Built for comfort, not speed.

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Re: Is this the UK's lowest speed limit?

Post by WHBM » Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:12

ravenbluemoon wrote:
Also could you be done for speeding while walking?!?!
I think that this is correct; is there anything in speed limit requirements that stipulates Motor Vehicles Only, rather than all road users ?

London Transport, when a single large organisation, always had prominent 4mph limit signs in all their bus garages, which was the lowest I have noted.
my old Alfa Romeo 146. The spedometer on that didn't actually rest at 0 mph from the factory, it started from IIRC 10 mph.
Reminds me of an old Humber owned by a friend's father when I was a kid. When starting off the speedo fluctuated between 0 and 90, as your speed became constant it settled down. I wonder what the mechanical fault with it was, I suspect a loose speedo cable.

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Re: Is this the UK's lowest speed limit?

Post by bob@romiley1 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:20

WHBM wrote:
London Transport, when a single large organisation, always had prominent 4mph limit signs in all their bus garages, which was the lowest I have noted.
Walking Pace. Buses could not travel quicker than people on foot in their garages.
Bob

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Re: Is this the UK's lowest speed limit?

Post by Ritchie333 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:40

4mph is quite fast for a walking pace. I can cover a mile in about 17 minutes, which works out at about 3.5mph. And I would consider myself to walk fairly quickly given my build and leg size.
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Re: Is this the UK's lowest speed limit?

Post by ravenbluemoon » Wed Jul 14, 2010 17:32

rhyds wrote:
ravenbluemoon wrote:That would be a real clutch killer!
Also could you be done for speeding while walking?!?! :lol:
Just leave it in 1st and let the engine idle. That'll give you ~2mph easily...
I checked to see on my errands today.... my car will do about 4mph (can't get it on the speedo, but about walking pace as mentioned above). 2nd gear is 8mph, 3rd is 15mph, 4th is 21mph, 5th is 26mph*. Third gear is interesting as I drive to a lot of private estates/unis etc. where the site limit is 15mph. I wonder if it was conciously chosen as most cars will do it idling in 3rd (most of our vans do this too).

*Yes my car has 1mph graduations! Can't say it's that accurate mind you.
"Down at the Ferrybridge junction
Beneath the cooling towers a man stood hitching a ride
And in the long grass at the side of the road his son was laid asleep
He said - nothing's left to keep us in the city where we come from
Take us far away from here - looking for work and the wishing-well"

Tales of the Road - Justin Sullivan, 2003

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Re: Is this the UK's lowest speed limit?

Post by GrahamP » Wed Jul 14, 2010 18:24

WHBM wrote:Reminds me of an old Humber owned by a friend's father when I was a kid. When starting off the speedo fluctuated between 0 and 90, as your speed became constant it settled down. I wonder what the mechanical fault with it was, I suspect a loose speedo cable.
That's the standard symptom of the speedo cable sticking, either due to lack of lubrication or being bent too tightly. The cable sticks, gets wound up like a spring, then comes unstuck causing the indicated speed to increase, then the process repeats. 0-90 is an unusually wide range for the needle to bounce over though.

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Re: Is this the UK's lowest speed limit?

Post by GrahamP » Wed Jul 14, 2010 18:25

Ritchie333 wrote:4mph is quite fast for a walking pace. I can cover a mile in about 17 minutes, which works out at about 3.5mph. And I would consider myself to walk fairly quickly given my build and leg size.
A brisk walk for me is between 4.5 and 5MPH. I've measured this on a treadmill, and while pushing a bike with a cycle-computer. But then I am 6'2".

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Re: Is this the UK's lowest speed limit?

Post by WHBM » Wed Jul 14, 2010 23:30

GrahamP wrote: 0-90 is an unusually wide range for the needle to bounce over though.
Indeed. I've never seen one do the whole speedo (which this was) before or since. But this one did. It was one of those flattened semi-circle ones where the total range of the stubby little needle was about 130 degrees. If it had been the complete circle type that would indeed have been a sight.

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Re: Is this the UK's lowest speed limit?

Post by BigToe » Wed Jul 14, 2010 23:57

GrahamP wrote:
Ritchie333 wrote:4mph is quite fast for a walking pace. I can cover a mile in about 17 minutes, which works out at about 3.5mph. And I would consider myself to walk fairly quickly given my build and leg size.
A brisk walk for me is between 4.5 and 5MPH. I've measured this on a treadmill, and while pushing a bike with a cycle-computer. But then I am 6'2".
I would say I walk quite fast - I do get annoyed quite often by slow people. Measured it today when I went out on a walk and on average 3.7mph. Not bad considering my weight! So 4mph isn't too far out.
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Re: Is this the UK's lowest speed limit?

Post by Nwallace » Thu Jul 15, 2010 00:06

Private Toll Bridge?

Obviously the bus garage limit is enforceable by company terms of contract.

Last time I looked at the Roads (Speed Limits) Act it was only enforceable for motorised vehicles.

But since this speed limit isn't covered by it, then maybe the bridge owner would try and take out a civil action against a fast walking pedestrian. :laugh:

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Re: Is this the UK's lowest speed limit?

Post by puro_pt » Thu Jul 15, 2010 07:27

don't give him any ideas... The owner might be reading this you know? :-)

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Re: Is this the UK's lowest speed limit?

Post by jcpren » Thu Jul 15, 2010 08:45

WHBM wrote:
ravenbluemoon wrote:
Also could you be done for speeding while walking?!?!
I think that this is correct; is there anything in speed limit requirements that stipulates Motor Vehicles Only, rather than all road users ?
I once read on SABRE that the speed limit doesn't apply to cyclists (although they can apparently still be charged with the archaic offence of "riding a carriage furiously"!) so there must be something in the law that restricts it to motor vehicles.
John

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Re: Is this the UK's lowest speed limit?

Post by AndyB » Thu Jul 15, 2010 09:26

Section 84 of RTRA only permits Orders to be made limiting the speed of motor vehicles. I assume the reason is that there is no requirement on unmotorised vehicles to have a speedometer, let alone one correctly calibrated.

The 2mph speed restriction is unenforceable. I'm sure we've all been in cars whose speedometers only start indicating at 10mph, and that will have been approved under CUR.

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Re: Is this the UK's lowest speed limit?

Post by michael769 » Thu Jul 15, 2010 09:41

jcpren wrote: (although they can apparently still be charged with the archaic offence of "riding a carriage furiously"!)
That offence you are thinking of is "Wanton and Furious Driving or Riding", which comes from Offences Against the Person Act 1861. It requires that someone not in the vehicle is injured or killed so it is not much use against speeding in general.While this act is rather old it is the same act that covers offences like ABH and GBH, so it is still very much an active part of criminal law. Bad cycling on the road is normally covered under Sects 2 (Reckless or Dangerous cycling) and 3 (Careless or inconsiderate cycling) of the Road Traffic Act. The Furious Driving offence is normally used in cases which happen on private land as this Act (unlike most Road Traffic law) applies everwhere, even in the privacy of our own homes - it is also a very serious criminal offence which will result in a permanent criminal record!

Speed limits in the UK are covered mostly by the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 and only apply to motorised vehicles.

EDIT: I have just been reminded that there is a generalized offense in the RTA of "driving or riding at an excessively high speed for the prevailing conditions". As an RTA offence it is likely to extend to all vehicles including cycles so I suspect that could be used against cyclists.
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Re: Is this the UK's lowest speed limit?

Post by michael769 » Thu Jul 15, 2010 09:49

AndyB wrote:
The 2mph speed restriction is unenforceable. I'm sure we've all been in cars whose speedometers only start indicating at 10mph, and that will have been approved under CUR.
As far as I am aware the lowest enforcable limit is 20mph.

Assuming this is on private land, the owner of the land is, of course, entitled to apply any restrictions he likes on visitors to his land, and he can if he wishes apply it to cyclists as well as motorists. Failing to obey such a restriction would fall within the scope of trespass, but that is a civil matter and between the landowner and the trespasser.
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Re: Is this the UK's lowest speed limit?

Post by PeterA5145 » Thu Jul 15, 2010 09:54

ravenbluemoon wrote:Just leave it in 1st and let the engine idle. That'll give you ~2mph easily...
I checked to see on my errands today.... my car will do about 4mph (can't get it on the speedo, but about walking pace as mentioned above)
4 mph is credible, but 2 mph isn't. Cars tend to do about 5 mph/1000 rpm in first gear, and idle at maybe 800 rpm, so would do about 4 mph in first at idling speed. However, IME, while a diesel car will creep forward with the engine idling, a petrol car will tend to stall.
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Re: Is this the UK's lowest speed limit?

Post by michael769 » Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:07

PeterA5145 wrote: 4 mph is credible, but 2 mph isn't. Cars tend to do about 5 mph/1000 rpm in first gear, and idle at maybe 800 rpm, so would do about 4 mph in first at idling speed. However, IME, while a diesel car will creep forward with the engine idling, a petrol car will tend to stall.
My petrol car is happy to creep at 6mph, but I suspect that is down to the ECU's anti-stall keeping enough throttle to prevent a stall. I can get it down to 4mph with a little brake before I start to feel the anti-stall fighting the brakes. 6mph is as low as I can sustain without unduly stressing the car.
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