Laurencekirk GSJ

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

User avatar
Glen
Social Media Admin
Posts: 5426
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 02:16
Location: Inbhir Pheofharain
Contact:

Re: Laurencekirk GSJ

Post by Glen »

David D Miller wrote: Sat Jul 21, 2018 23:42The middle junction and northern junction at Laurencekirk simply aren't in the same league, are too important for local traffic to be closed off, and not enough of a problem to justify building two more expensive bridges.
There only needs to be a link road between the B9120 to the southern junction to provide access, this was one of the options considered to allow the junction to be closed.
Junction options.PNG
While it's true that turning right onto a dual carriageway is more hazardous than turning right into the side road, I wouldn't say that the north junction is that important, given the short distance to the southern junction, that it needs to remain open to serve a right turn into what is a fairly small village.

I'm sure some locals would complain about the extra distance to enter the village from the north (left turns could remain), but that isn't a good reason to leave it open instead of doing the job properly.
And that there are other at-grade junctions on the road isn't a reason to close off ones when the opportunity arises.
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35756
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: Laurencekirk GSJ

Post by Bryn666 »

The A90 will be this generation's A74 if the A96 and A9 become effectively full blown expressways.

For the sake of 1km this seems short sighted and utterly pointless to not do.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7549
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: Laurencekirk GSJ

Post by jackal »

The prioritization in Scotland is bizarre. There's no way on earth that Aberdeen to Inverness should be a higher priority than Aberdeen to... almost everywhere else.
User avatar
wrinkly
Member
Posts: 8991
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:17
Location: Leeds

Re: Laurencekirk GSJ

Post by wrinkly »

jackal wrote: Sun Jul 22, 2018 18:42 The prioritization in Scotland is bizarre. There's no way on earth that Aberdeen to Inverness should be a higher priority than Aberdeen to... almost everywhere else.
It's not only in Scotland that dualling of an S2 route might be prioritised over grade separation of an already-dualled route.
SuperLez
Member
Posts: 543
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 21:32

Re: Laurencekirk GSJ

Post by SuperLez »

Bryn666 wrote: Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:32 The A90 will be this generation's A74 if the A96 and A9 become effectively full blown expressways.

For the sake of 1km this seems short sighted and utterly pointless to not do.
I take it that you're speaking about the A9 to the north of Perth. There will still be gaps in the carriageway between Broxden and Kier, and this is a much busier stretch than the A90 south of Stonehaven. Proper scandalous!
Ye May Gang Far And Fare Waur
User avatar
novaecosse
Member
Posts: 4722
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 23:35
Location: Dundee, Scotland

Re: Laurencekirk GSJ

Post by novaecosse »

It was mooted in the last couple of years they’d need to be two GSJ’s at Laurencekirk.

In 2005, I knocked up a diamond GSJ on the back of a fag packet, while we were installing the ‘temporary’ 50mph limit.

Someone at Amey must have found the fag packet! :lol:
User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7549
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: Laurencekirk GSJ

Post by jackal »

wrinkly wrote: Sun Jul 22, 2018 19:17
jackal wrote: Sun Jul 22, 2018 18:42 The prioritization in Scotland is bizarre. There's no way on earth that Aberdeen to Inverness should be a higher priority than Aberdeen to... almost everywhere else.
It's not only in Scotland that dualling of an S2 route might be prioritised over grade separation of an already-dualled route.
Isn't the A96 ~5k AADT in places? Taking such country roads to full expressway, but not a heavily trafficked intercity route like the A90, is not normal prioritization.
SuperLez
Member
Posts: 543
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 21:32

Re: Laurencekirk GSJ

Post by SuperLez »

jackal wrote: Sun Jul 22, 2018 22:20
wrinkly wrote: Sun Jul 22, 2018 19:17
jackal wrote: Sun Jul 22, 2018 18:42 The prioritization in Scotland is bizarre. There's no way on earth that Aberdeen to Inverness should be a higher priority than Aberdeen to... almost everywhere else.
It's not only in Scotland that dualling of an S2 route might be prioritised over grade separation of an already-dualled route.
Isn't the A96 ~5k AADT in places? Taking such country roads to full expressway, but not a heavily trafficked intercity route like the A90, is not normal prioritization.
According to data sourced from SABRE maps, the AADT between Fochabers and Inverurie varies between 7,000 - 8,000. Figures are around double that between Fochabes and Inverness. The already dualled Aberdeen-Inverurie stretch is of course a damn sight busier, but there are plans to possibly reroute the A96 via the A947 and hooking across country.

Don't get me wrong. The A96 could do with a load of realigning and widening along virtually along its entire length, and bypasses of Keith and Nairn. But full on HQD2 does look well OTT for the most part. Closing all the central reserve gaps between Aberdeen and Dundee and the Keir-Broxden stretch of the A9 would probably give better value once you factor in the greatly reduced potential for collisions along these much busier routes.
Ye May Gang Far And Fare Waur
User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7549
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: Laurencekirk GSJ

Post by jackal »

^ 6k between Fochabars and Keith. Really the odd S2 bypass/realignment would be sufficient.
Nwallace
Member
Posts: 4240
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 22:42
Location: Dundee

Re: Laurencekirk GSJ

Post by Nwallace »

jackal wrote: Sun Jul 22, 2018 23:54 ^ 6k between Fochabars and Keith. Really the odd S2 bypass/realignment would be sufficient.
Which creates the A9 problem all over again...
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35756
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: Laurencekirk GSJ

Post by Bryn666 »

The northern end of I-95 in Maine has about 3,000 vehicles per day.

If the link has a journey time or safety benefit that should be factored in. Traffic figures alone are a poor indicator of scheme worth and it's why things are so badly built here.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7549
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: Laurencekirk GSJ

Post by jackal »

Bryn666 wrote: Mon Jul 23, 2018 20:11 The northern end of I-95 in Maine has about 3,000 vehicles per day.

If the link has a journey time or safety benefit that should be factored in. Traffic figures alone are a poor indicator of scheme worth and it's why things are so badly built here.
Yes but the SNP did not do a conscientious comparison of the journey time and safety benefits of turning various A roads into expressways. They promised to dual the A9 and A96 to win votes in the Highlands and North East, which were the main places where they were competitive 15-20 years ago. It has more than a whiff of pork barrel politics, and the fact that there are similarly dubious uses of public money in the US - and indeed Southern Italy - hardly legitimates it.
User avatar
Ruperts Trooper
Member
Posts: 12031
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 13:43
Location: Huntingdonshire originally, but now Staffordshire

Re: Laurencekirk GSJ

Post by Ruperts Trooper »

jackal wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 09:43
Bryn666 wrote: Mon Jul 23, 2018 20:11 The northern end of I-95 in Maine has about 3,000 vehicles per day.

If the link has a journey time or safety benefit that should be factored in. Traffic figures alone are a poor indicator of scheme worth and it's why things are so badly built here.
Yes but the SNP did not do a conscientious comparison of the journey time and safety benefits of turning various A roads into expressways. They promised to dual the A9 and A96 to win votes in the Highlands and North East, which were the main places where they were competitive 15-20 years ago. It has more than a whiff of pork barrel politics, and the fact that there are similarly dubious uses of public money in the US - and indeed Southern Italy - hardly legitimates it.
I guess the plan is to link the A96/A90 to the Humber Bridge!
Lifelong motorhead
User avatar
orudge
Site Manager
Posts: 8262
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 12:23
Location: Banchory
Contact:

Re: Laurencekirk GSJ

Post by orudge »

Ground investigation work to start in early May. Draft orders to hopefully be published "later in 2019".
User avatar
Euan
Member
Posts: 1851
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 07:59
Location: North Ayrshire

Re: Laurencekirk GSJ

Post by Euan »

The A937 seems to frequently be near the top of the list of most dangerous A roads in Scotland and I wonder how much the safety record of the present at-grade junction with the A90 contributes to that tally. Unless there is a very specific hazard somewhere else along the A937, I would imagine that the A90 junction would be a major factor in this.
E-roads, M-roads, A-roads, N-roads, B-roads, R-roads, C-roads, L-roads, U-roads, footpaths
User avatar
Burns
Member
Posts: 3791
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 21:37
Location: Dundee
Contact:

Re: Laurencekirk GSJ

Post by Burns »

Euan wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 09:32 The A937 seems to frequently be near the top of the list of most dangerous A roads in Scotland and I wonder how much the safety record of the present at-grade junction with the A90 contributes to that tally. Unless there is a very specific hazard somewhere else along the A937, I would imagine that the A90 junction would be a major factor in this.
I think it's the only reason the road has a low safety record. The rest of the drive, bar one amazing straight is somewhat unremarkable.
User avatar
orudge
Site Manager
Posts: 8262
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 12:23
Location: Banchory
Contact:

Re: Laurencekirk GSJ

Post by orudge »

Public exhibition materials and fly-through visualisation are available on the web site. (Draft orders were published just before Christmas.)
User avatar
Bertiebus
Member
Posts: 249
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 15:12
Location: The land of haggis bothering, NE division

Re: Laurencekirk GSJ

Post by Bertiebus »

orudge wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:46 Public exhibition materials and fly-through visualisation are available on the web site. (Draft orders were published just before Christmas.)
That can't be Laurencekirk. It doesn't meet the well-known A90 GSJ specs where the off-slips have to be about three feet six inches long before you hit an impossibly tight 90º left hander :twisted:
Nwallace
Member
Posts: 4240
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 22:42
Location: Dundee

Re: Laurencekirk GSJ

Post by Nwallace »

Bertiebus wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 17:35
orudge wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:46 Public exhibition materials and fly-through visualisation are available on the web site. (Draft orders were published just before Christmas.)
That can't be Laurencekirk. It doesn't meet the well-known A90 GSJ specs where the off-slips have to be about three feet six inches long before you hit an impossibly tight 90º left hander :twisted:
Nah that's an Angus thing, just like Circles in Dundee.
Aberdeenshire gets visibly good stuff just to make them think the oil money's being spent on them.
User avatar
novaecosse
Member
Posts: 4722
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 23:35
Location: Dundee, Scotland

Re: Laurencekirk GSJ

Post by novaecosse »

Nwallace wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 19:29
Bertiebus wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 17:35
orudge wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:46 Public exhibition materials and fly-through visualisation are available on the web site. (Draft orders were published just before Christmas.)
That can't be Laurencekirk. It doesn't meet the well-known A90 GSJ specs where the off-slips have to be about three feet six inches long before you hit an impossibly tight 90º left hander :twisted:
Nah that's an Angus thing, just like Circles in Dundee.
Aberdeenshire gets visibly good stuff just to make them think the oil money's being spent on them.
Somebody found the page in the DMRB with the big junctions in it 8-)
Post Reply