A417 Missing Link campaign!

[Owain]

* The A419 was renumbered A417 in 1935 to give a continuous number to a Reading - Gloucester route.

The question has to be what would have been the favoured route from Reading to Cirencester (and hence on to Gloucester) in 1935? The A329/A417 via Goring or A4/A419 via Hungerford? I suspect the latter was always the main route.

I believe it's mentioned somewhere in National Archives file MT 39/246 "Renumbering of classified routes", though I can't remember where my camera copies of that file have gone.

What was wrong with the A40?

The Oxford-Cheltenham section is one of my all-time favourite stretches of road!

[ChrisH]

The dualled Swindon-Gloucester route should clearly be the M41

[A9NWIL]

The dualled Swindon-Gloucester route should clearly be the M41

Well that's perfection right there, something I would love to see too and the A9 to Inverness become the M9 along with other motorway upgrades. In the real world being able to have one route number would be a nice thing to have and as the northern bit did used to be A419 to Birdlip at least it deserves that number for the whole route.

[jackal]

Keir has been awarded the £460m design-build contract: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.market ... -40120714/

The scheme is currently under examination at the Planning Inspectorate.

[Debaser]

Keir has been awarded the £460m design-build contract: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.market ... -40120714/

The scheme is currently under examination at the Planning Inspectorate.

That's a bit of an odd one? The RDP is contractor led, and the contractors for the south-west are Galliford Try and Taylor Woodrow. They've all got designers on board and Arup's were Taylor Woodrow's design partner in the south-west and to my knowledge they'd got the detailed design work for the A417. Has something changed, are TW not able to commit to the work given they're on with the A358? If GT are also too busy with the A303 why just get the two contractors and not three, or schedule these works better so there are no peaks and troughs - the supposed reasoning behind DIP/RIS/RDP?

[Ritchie333]

Is the Air Balloon still planned to be demolished? I visit the pub about once a year (it's too far away to go any more) and the food and atmosphere is always nice. It always makes me think I'm approaching Wales when I'm there.

[fras]

Is the Air Balloon still planned to be demolished? I visit the pub about once a year (it's too far away to go any more) and the food and atmosphere is always nice. It always makes me think I'm approaching Wales when I'm there.

I'm afraid so, the new road goes right through the site. We aIso have eaten in there coming back from holiday. There was the usual jam once the dual-carriageway ended, so we popped into the Air Balloon as it was getting late.

[Bryn666]

Is the Air Balloon still planned to be demolished? I visit the pub about once a year (it's too far away to go any more) and the food and atmosphere is always nice. It always makes me think I'm approaching Wales when I'm there.

I'm afraid so, the new road goes right through the site. We aIso have eaten in there coming back from holiday. There was the usual jam once the dual-carriageway ended, so we popped into the Air Balloon as it was getting late.

Can guarantee Eurogarages will be along with a copy and paste pseudo MSA instead...!

[darkcape]

Keir has been awarded the £460m design-build contract: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.market ... -40120714/

The scheme is currently under examination at the Planning Inspectorate.

That's a bit of an odd one? The RDP is contractor led, and the contractors for the south-west are Galliford Try and Taylor Woodrow. They've all got designers on board and Arup's were Taylor Woodrow's design partner in the south-west and to my knowledge they'd got the detailed design work for the A417. Has something changed, are TW not able to commit to the work given they're on with the A358? If GT are also too busy with the A303 why just get the two contractors and not three, or schedule these works better so there are no peaks and troughs - the supposed reasoning behind DIP/RIS/RDP?

Aren't schemes of a certain value outside the RDP, such as Stonehenge, LTC etc? Colleagues who worked on the RDP bids never mentioned those schemes.

[Debaser]

Keir has been awarded the £460m design-build contract: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.market ... -40120714/

The scheme is currently under examination at the Planning Inspectorate.

That's a bit of an odd one? The RDP is contractor led, and the contractors for the south-west are Galliford Try and Taylor Woodrow. They've all got designers on board and Arup's were Taylor Woodrow's design partner in the south-west and to my knowledge they'd got the detailed design work for the A417. Has something changed, are TW not able to commit to the work given they're on with the A358? If GT are also too busy with the A303 why just get the two contractors and not three, or schedule these works better so there are no peaks and troughs - the supposed reasoning behind DIP/RIS/RDP?

Aren't schemes of a certain value outside the RDP, such as Stonehenge, LTC etc? Colleagues who worked on the RDP bids never mentioned those schemes.

Apparently NH can now call off anyone on the framework list for any area - the regionality aspect seems to have gone by the by for these later schemes, which makes you wonder why they bothered with that format in the first place

[A303Chris]

Here is the official DfT press release.

They must be confident of a positive outcome from the planning inspectorate.

All they need now is freeflow slips from M4 westbound to A419 northbound and A419 southbound to M4 eastbound at J15 to create a freeflow link from the M4 to M5.

[jackal]

Here is the official DfT press release.

They must be confident of a positive outcome from the planning inspectorate.

All they need now is freeflow slips from M4 westbound to A419 northbound and A419 southbound to M4 eastbound at J15 to create a freeflow link from the M4 to M5.

A419 southbound to M4 eastbound freeflow was added last year.

However, there are still some reserve gaps north of Swindon. Until those are addressed I wouldn't consider it truly freeflow in either direction.

[RichardA35]

Here is the official DfT press release.

They must be confident of a positive outcome from the planning inspectorate.

All they need now is freeflow slips from M4 westbound to A419 northbound and A419 southbound to M4 eastbound at J15 to create a freeflow link from the M4 to M5.

A419 southbound to M4 eastbound freeflow was added last year.

However, there are still some reserve gaps north of Swindon. Until those are addressed I wouldn't consider it truly freeflow in either direction.

Shouldn't that be on a programme of quick wins to bring the route upto "Expressway" standard or is that dead in the water these days?

[A303Chris]

Here is the official DfT press release.

They must be confident of a positive outcome from the planning inspectorate.

All they need now is freeflow slips from M4 westbound to A419 northbound and A419 southbound to M4 eastbound at J15 to create a freeflow link from the M4 to M5.

A419 southbound to M4 eastbound freeflow was added last year.

However, there are still some reserve gaps north of Swindon. Until those are addressed I wouldn't consider it truly freeflow in either direction.

Thanks just seen on google, opened late last year, it looks like. I have not been off at j15 for a year or more. Although the queues coming off westbound are worse then ever usually in lane one to the 1/2 mile ADS at peak times.

[wrinkly]

Here is the official DfT press release.

They must be confident of a positive outcome from the planning inspectorate.

Early contractor involvement has been a thing for many years, sometimes at an earlier stage than this scheme is at now.

[Ritchie333]

Is the Air Balloon still planned to be demolished? I visit the pub about once a year (it's too far away to go any more) and the food and atmosphere is always nice. It always makes me think I'm approaching Wales when I'm there.

I'm afraid so, the new road goes right through the site. We aIso have eaten in there coming back from holiday. There was the usual jam once the dual-carriageway ended, so we popped into the Air Balloon as it was getting late.

Can guarantee Eurogarages will be along with a copy and paste pseudo MSA instead...!

I hope not, I won't stop there. The Air Balloon is just one of those significant landmarks when road tripping, it always makes me think it's a good time to rest, and I think it's drawn in plenty of people because they can see queues ahead and fancy a stop instead. I'm trying to think how many times I've been there.

* 1989, youth club trip to Wilderhope Manor, Shopshire - didn't have a meal, main reason was for the drivers to rest. Back then, the A34 still had quite a bit of single carriageway so the A419/7 route was potentially better
* 1996, random roadtrip
* 1999, on a training course in Cirencester, bored (hotels didn't have wifi back then) and fancying a roadtrip
* 2004, coming back from the SABRE AGM
* 2005, likewise
* 2006 and at least four other times since - stop for an evening meal en route to the overnight ferries to Ireland
* 2007, quick break driving back from Mid Wales
* 2020, family meal before heading into Wales - I knew the pub was going to close by this time so kind of insisted stopping there!
* 2021, potential family meal completely thwarted by the M4 being closed west of Newbury and the M25 partly closed around Heathrow. Stopped for (non alcoholic) drinks and snacks on the way back to compensate

Quite a regular customer for a pub that's 160 miles away from me!

[jackal]

Here is the official DfT press release.

They must be confident of a positive outcome from the planning inspectorate.

All they need now is freeflow slips from M4 westbound to A419 northbound and A419 southbound to M4 eastbound at J15 to create a freeflow link from the M4 to M5.

A419 southbound to M4 eastbound freeflow was added last year.

However, there are still some reserve gaps north of Swindon. Until those are addressed I wouldn't consider it truly freeflow in either direction.

Shouldn't that be on a programme of quick wins to bring the route upto "Expressway" standard or is that dead in the water these days?

Expressways seem to be pretty much dead. They published some elaborate standards, but there never really seemed to be any point to them. What was actually needed was just some quick and dirty 'happy car' signs and a different sign colour to be applied to existing grade-separated dual carriageways.

As the A419 gaps are not much of a capacity constraint, there would have to be a significant safety issue to justify the tens of millions for a GSJ. Looking at crashmap.co.uk there was a serious accident at the Seven Bridges reserve gap in 2017, another at the northern gap in 2019, but none at the southern gap recently.

[Bryn666]

A419 southbound to M4 eastbound freeflow was added last year.

However, there are still some reserve gaps north of Swindon. Until those are addressed I wouldn't consider it truly freeflow in either direction.

Shouldn't that be on a programme of quick wins to bring the route upto "Expressway" standard or is that dead in the water these days?

Expressways seem to be pretty much dead. They published some elaborate standards, but there never really seemed to be any point to them. What was actually needed was just some quick and dirty 'happy car' signs and a different sign colour to be applied to existing grade-separated dual carriageways.

As the A419 gaps are not much of a capacity constraint, there would have to be a significant safety issue to justify the tens of millions for a GSJ. Looking at crashmap.co.uk there was a serious accident at the Seven Bridges reserve gap in 2017, another at the northern gap in 2019, but none at the southern gap recently.

Didn't even need the separate colour signs, just the happy car would have done - apparently Transport Focus claimed this would be "too confusing" in a way that having six roundels in a tiny typeface on the A14 isn't.

[ajuk]

How come the A417 used to dog leg at Birdlip rather than going through it. It looks like much of the traffic even went that way as there is a climbing lane on the old route that is aptly named Dog Lane, was that just for HGVs? Still looks difficult with the turns, maybe the climbing lane on the old route was built at the same time of after the Birdlip bypass? It does seem mad that they've done so many improvment to that road but still it comes to a crashing halt on that roundabout, they could at least put in a WB left turn filter.

[Isleworth1961]

How come the A417 used to dog leg at Birdlip rather than going through it. It looks like much of the traffic even went that way as there is a climbing lane on the old route that is aptly named Dog Lane, was that just for HGVs? Still looks difficult with the turns, maybe the climbing lane on the old route was built at the same time of after the Birdlip bypass? It does seem mad that they've done so many improvment to that road but still it comes to a crashing halt on that roundabout, they could at least put in a WB left turn filter.

Birdlip Hill was far too steep to have become the main road - so almost all the traffic turned at Birdlip. We used to regularly travel London to Gloucester in the 60s/70s before the M4 opened up all the way, and the road was never particularly busy from Cirencester to Birdlip (we used Birdlip Hill). The traffic levels on the A417/A419 between Birdlip and Swindon were much less then, and the quicker route from London to Gloucester then was via the A40/A436/A417 before the current M4/A419/A417 route. I should think the climbing lane was added long before the Birdlip Bypass, which came in the early 1980s, I think. Part of what is now Dog Lane in Witcombe has been returned to nature - a new junction was made where it now meets Cirencester Road and Bentham Lane, previously there was a curve in the old A417.