Traffic lights "except for buses, cycles and taxis"

[shampooefficient]

A few miles from me is this interesting arrangement of signals... only just put in by the council. Oddly, if you try to step closer to them, you pass through a time portal and the new lights disappear, so you'll have to trust me.

<iframe src="https://www.google.com/maps/embed?pb=!1 ... 3203789971" width="600" height="450" frameborder="0" style="border:0"></iframe>

Bus lane with priority signals at the end to allow them to merge in front of the other traffic. However, the white disc at the bottom of the lights says "except buses, taxis or cycles". Being an awkward, contrary type of chap, I would say this leads to a red signal meaning "stop unless you are in a bus", and a green signal meaning "go, unless you are in a bus". Obviously common sense prevails, but is this setup actually legitimate?

[urbanfox]

Surely it should have a 'Buses, taxis (, etc) Only' roundel?

*Goes to find examples on Street View*

*Finds one location has no signage and another says 'Except buses'*

Hmm

[Fahad]

I don't think you can embed Google Maps / Street View on the forums - this is the location in question https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5717294 ... 0?hl=en-US

That's a completely unnecessary and confusing plate on the lights. The bus lane is enough to create the restriction

[vlad]

I don't think you can embed Google Maps / Street View on the forums - this is the location in question https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5717294 ... 0?hl=en-US

If that's the location then surely the extra set of lights is a bus gate and any restriction should read only buses. Can we argue that they've legislated that buses can't actually use the bus gate?

[Andy33gmail]

The bus lane attracts only a fine, the red light is endorsable. Just saying

[MotorwayGuy]

This set in Gravesend has the exact same thing, and it's been like that ever since they were replaced a few years ago. The old set had the proper blue "Buses and Cycles only" sign.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.44241 ... 501T000000

[Glen]

"Except buses" doesn't even make sense, surely that would read that buses are exempt from the traffic signals, ie can ignore them.

These bus priority signals in Inverness has blue bus signs under the signals and an additional sign on the right to emphasise the point. I don't know if that's the correct way to do it either, but it certainly makes more sense.

[michael769]

That one is a complete mess.

The green arrow overrides the red light for all traffic going straight on I both lanes. There is no provision in the regs for a signal to only apply to a specific lane or type of vehicle (trams excluded).

A bus gate of that type needs an island to clearly deliniate the signals. The island should have 2 signal heads side by side, one for each side of the island. Louvres are usually needed if there is a risk of drivers misreading.

There is no need for "except xxx" or "xxx only" when it's done correctly.

[M4Mark]

"Except" plates without an accompanying regulatory sign attached to signals are wrong.
The original Gravesend example with blue bus/cycle signs is the correct way if you're going to do it (although I'd have to double check if it's a permitted sign to attach to a signal). It's all rather moot anyway as if there's a bus lane then the offence is being in the bus lane irrespective of the signal being green or red.
If there's no bus lane then use the correct signs in advance of the signals to make it a Bus Only Gate, If I can do it there's no reason others can't.

[Andy33gmail]

There's no need for lights there anyway! The only conflict at the junction it preceeds is traffic from the left joining the main line. I don't know the setup, but does that really create enough of a bottleneck to create a queue in the first place that buses might want to queue jump?

[boing_uk]

If I remember rightly, the blue bus lane signs are not permitted to be attached to signals. I agree though that the "except" is the wrong way to go about it. Given that a bus lane should only have buses etc approaching it, the additional signage is superfluous.

[Andy33gmail]

There are too many interpretations open, some more reasonable than others

One that stretches it might be the red lights don't apply to buses - perhaps they're there for information - and therefore they can proceed with caution on red as if they didn't exist

I don't see the harm in just having a give way line at the end that prioritises the "giant empty polluting vehicles lane" on merge - would be much cheaper

[boing_uk]

"giant empty polluting vehicles lane"

What... people carriers and 4WD's?

[Andy33gmail]

I saw four empty buses in a row in Chester the other day. I think the 28th. The centre itself was absolutely heaving, so if they're so useless they're not even needed then, what's the point?

[boing_uk]

It is very rare to see "empty" buses nowadays - the subsidies arent there so if its not commercially viable they dont run. Empty in service at a particular point does not necessarily mean that they are empty for their entire journey.

People round here complain about "all the empty buses" running around. Ive yet to see or be on one yet that isnt at least 50% loaded on the main routes, even in the evenings, and during the day most are almost crush-loaded to the point the local company has started running relief services which run just behind the scheduled one.

[Piatkow]

People round here complain about "all the empty buses"

The last time I heard somebody say that we were passing a bus standing at its "country" terminus before turning round to make the return journey!

[Jonathan24]

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.59576 ... XtrrmA!2e0

I always been confused by the "except buses" on traffic lights, which as referred to above, implies buses can ignore the signals.

There is another one in Belfast at the link above, although it seems to be upside down for some reason!

[traffic-light-man]

This is an old one from Warrington. Was replaced some years ago with this one, which also makes sense.

Then there's these and these, which are on another level really!

The common factor of all of the above is that they all make logical sense, whether they are correct or not. An exception, with out anything to exempt from just can't make sense to anyone, surely!

[Stevie D]

If I remember rightly, the blue bus lane signs are not permitted to be attached to signals. I agree though that the "except" is the wrong way to go about it. Given that a bus lane should only have buses etc approaching it, the additional signage is superfluous.

I would say that the blue "buses only" sign, or some other plate indicating that it is for buses only, attached to bus gate traffic lights has a useful purpose in helping approaching drivers to clearly understand which signals apply to them and which don't. All too often I'm approaching junctions with multiple sets of traffic lights and it takes quite a lot of brain time to figure out which lights I need to be looking at, particularly when there's deflection on the main lane through the junction – anything that makes it easier for drivers to tell quickly which signals to look at is a good thing. (And on that note, I found the old style arrows with the enlarged lamp circle easier to spot than the new design where the arrows are squidged into a normal size circle).

[James]

Im still trying to work this one out!
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6006627 ... DXUKJA!2e0

Looking at the sign on the other side of the closed road kind of gives it away, but why its like that now I have no idea