A6(NI) dualling to start

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bradán
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A6(NI) dualling to start

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Re: A6(NI) dualling to start

Post by Owain »

Now they need to do something about the A5, which is by far a worse road than the A6.
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Re: A6(NI) dualling to start

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I'm told that the stretch to the west of Toome runs through a whooper swan nesting area. This means that the contractor will only be allowed to work on that stretch for 6 months of the year. That partly explains why the western end is going to take over 3 years to open.

It seems funny, mind you, that it's fine for tens of thousands of vehicles to traverse a nesting area every day on a finished road, but it's not OK to carry out construction work in the same area!
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Re: A6(NI) dualling to start

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nirs wrote:I'm told that the stretch to the west of Toome runs through a whooper swan nesting area. This means that the contractor will only be allowed to work on that stretch for 6 months of the year. That partly explains why the western end is going to take over 3 years to open.

It seems funny, mind you, that it's fine for tens of thousands of vehicles to traverse a nesting area every day on a finished road, but it's not OK to carry out construction work in the same area!
is the dual carriageway from randalstown to toome going to be renamed as the m22? it makes sense to just continue with the motorway
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Re: A6(NI) dualling to start

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bradán wrote: is the dual carriageway from randalstown to toome going to be renamed as the m22? it makes sense to just continue with the motorway
I doubt it - the "M1 extension" was built as D2AP and took the A4 number so I can't imagine the A6 being any different...
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Re: A6(NI) dualling to start

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c2R wrote:
bradán wrote: is the dual carriageway from randalstown to toome going to be renamed as the m22? it makes sense to just continue with the motorway
I doubt it - the "M1 extension" was built as D2AP and took the A4 number so I can't imagine the A6 being any different...
As there seems to be about zero chance of the M2 ever being completed, it would make sense to swap its number over to the M22 to make a complete route, and renumber the stranded bit by Ballymena as M26.

When I was there last week, I was told that the name of Londonderry is going to be officially changed to Derry, so it'll be interesting to see what they put on the new signage.
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Re: A6(NI) dualling to start

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Owain wrote:
c2R wrote:
bradán wrote: is the dual carriageway from randalstown to toome going to be renamed as the m22? it makes sense to just continue with the motorway
I doubt it - the "M1 extension" was built as D2AP and took the A4 number so I can't imagine the A6 being any different...
As there seems to be about zero chance of the M2 ever being completed, it would make sense to swap its number over to the M22 to make a complete route, and renumber the stranded bit by Ballymena as M26.

When I was there last week, I was told that the name of Londonderry is going to be officially changed to Derry, so it'll be interesting to see what they put on the new signage.
or even rename the M22 as the M2 and rename the ballymena M2 as the M22
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Re: A6(NI) dualling to start

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bradán wrote:is the dual carriageway from randalstown to toome going to be renamed as the m22? it makes sense to just continue with the motorway
No. The new road is an all-purpose dual-carriageway so will be designated A6. It will also have three at-grade lay-bys along its length.

That said, it has no intermediate junctions and doesn't subsume any existing rights of way, so provided you closed the lay-bys there's nothing really stopping you making it a motorway. It would just require a legal order to be made. It will have no hard shoulders, but that doesn't stop it becoming a motorway since motorway legislation makes no mention of design standard.

I agree with those who think we should scrap the M22 and just renumber it all as M2. A good number for the Ballymena Bypass would be A26(M), given that it becomes the A26 at either end. Some people don't like A(M) numbers, even though they're common in the UK, and the south end of own A8 is A8(M). If that was a big issue we could plump for M26. I feel like I've had this debate countless times, but I can't see it happening anytime soon.
Owain wrote:When I was there last week, I was told that the name of Londonderry is going to be officially changed to Derry, so it'll be interesting to see what they put on the new signage.
Where did you hear that? I'm not aware of any such change. I know the new Derry & Strabane council voted to change the name in July 2015. This would require British government approval and in November 2015 the government confirmed that it would not be granted, on the grounds that it breached the Good Friday Agreement since it did not have cross-community support. I'm not aware of anything happening since then, unless I've missed it?

The best proposal I think I've heard is to refer to the walled portion of the city centre, i.e. the 17th century walled town, as "Londonderry", and the surrounding modern city as "Derry". To me that seems like a good compromise that both sides could agree to.
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Re: A6(NI) dualling to start

Post by M5Lenzar »

nirs wrote: Where did you hear that? I'm not aware of any such change. I know the new Derry & Strabane council voted to change the name in July 2015. This would require British government approval and in November 2015 the government confirmed that it would not be granted,
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Re: A6(NI) dualling to start

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nirs wrote:
bradán wrote:is the dual carriageway from randalstown to toome going to be renamed as the m22? it makes sense to just continue with the motorway
No. The new road is an all-purpose dual-carriageway so will be designated A6. It will also have three at-grade lay-bys along its length.

That said, it has no intermediate junctions and doesn't subsume any existing rights of way, so provided you closed the lay-bys there's nothing really stopping you making it a motorway. It would just require a legal order to be made. It will have no hard shoulders, but that doesn't stop it becoming a motorway since motorway legislation makes no mention of design standard.
Indeed. A surprisingly lengthy section of the M1 out of Leeds is D4M with no hard shoulders. I drove it this morning. I also think they should renumber the A42 as the M42 without changing anything other than the signs. It's good enough.
nirs wrote:I agree with those who think we should scrap the M22 and just renumber it all as M2. A good number for the Ballymena Bypass would be A26(M), given that it becomes the A26 at either end. Some people don't like A(M) numbers, even though they're common in the UK, and the south end of own A8 is A8(M). If that was a big issue we could plump for M26. I feel like I've had this debate countless times, but I can't see it happening anytime soon.
Personally, I'd renumber the A26 from Antrim to Coleraine as A9, and the motorway section could be either M9 or A9(M). That would match nicely with the A8(M)/A8.
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Owain wrote:When I was there last week, I was told that the name of Londonderry is going to be officially changed to Derry, so it'll be interesting to see what they put on the new signage.
Where did you hear that? I'm not aware of any such change. I know the new Derry & Strabane council voted to change the name in July 2015. This would require British government approval and in November 2015 the government confirmed that it would not be granted, on the grounds that it breached the Good Friday Agreement since it did not have cross-community support. I'm not aware of anything happening since then, unless I've missed it?
My girlfriend told me. She mentioned it when I saw her last week, as though it were something that's happened since we last met (July). I don't know where she heard it, though.

She is an atheist with a Catholic father and a Protestant mother, born and raised in the city. Has lived on both the cityside and the waterside. She's as neutral as anybody from that city can possibly be. I have no reason to doubt her, but as I say, I don't know what her source was.
The best proposal I think I've heard is to refer to the walled portion of the city centre, i.e. the 17th century walled town, as "Londonderry", and the surrounding modern city as "Derry". To me that seems like a good compromise that both sides could agree to.
That makes sense, because the walled city was founded as Londonderry. However, as most of the people there are nationalists, I'm not sure that would work!

I'd have a go at saying "Okay, the city is called "Derry" but the county is "County Londonderry". That's how I used to write my address.

I've known nationalists talk of "County Derry", but AIUI there never was any such thing, because the counties were created by the English.
M5Lenzar wrote:Trust Westminster to Foyle that plan!
:laugh: Nice one!
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bradán
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Re: A6(NI) dualling to start

Post by bradán »

nirs wrote:
bradán wrote:is the dual carriageway from randalstown to toome going to be renamed as the m22? it makes sense to just continue with the motorway
No. The new road is an all-purpose dual-carriageway so will be designated A6. It will also have three at-grade lay-bys along its length.

That said, it has no intermediate junctions and doesn't subsume any existing rights of way, so provided you closed the lay-bys there's nothing really stopping you making it a motorway. It would just require a legal order to be made. It will have no hard shoulders, but that doesn't stop it becoming a motorway since motorway legislation makes no mention of design standard.

I agree with those who think we should scrap the M22 and just renumber it all as M2. A good number for the Ballymena Bypass would be A26(M), given that it becomes the A26 at either end. Some people don't like A(M) numbers, even though they're common in the UK, and the south end of own A8 is A8(M). If that was a big issue we could plump for M26. I feel like I've had this debate countless times, but I can't see it happening anytime soon.
Owain wrote:When I was there last week, I was told that the name of Londonderry is going to be officially changed to Derry, so it'll be interesting to see what they put on the new signage.
Where did you hear that? I'm not aware of any such change. I know the new Derry & Strabane council voted to change the name in July 2015. This would require British government approval and in November 2015 the government confirmed that it would not be granted, on the grounds that it breached the Good Friday Agreement since it did not have cross-community support. I'm not aware of anything happening since then, unless I've missed it?

The best proposal I think I've heard is to refer to the walled portion of the city centre, i.e. the 17th century walled town, as "Londonderry", and the surrounding modern city as "Derry". To me that seems like a good compromise that both sides could agree to.
can a motorway in the uk not have lay-bys? I know of one on the m6 in the republic
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Re: A6(NI) dualling to start

Post by ais523 »

You can't stop on a motorway unless you have no other option, making laybys rather pointless. (There are a few, including but not limited to refuge areas in smart motorway sections, but you aren't legally allowed to use them unless you break down, are pulled over by police, etc.).

If you wanted a layby on a UK motorway you'd need a sliproad leading to it and an "end of motorway regulations" sign on the sliproad that legally allowed drivers to stop there. The most commonly seen use of this pattern is motorway services (which would be overkill for a layby and comes with a bunch of requirements like toilets, 24 hour hot food, and the like), although there's some rarely used "rest area" legislation that has lower standards. (Unfortunately, SABRE Wiki doesn't seem to have an article about them, and I can't remember the rules myself, so someone else will have to explain that bit.)

EDIT: I found the rules on Motorway Services Online. You probably could make a layby into a rest area by building a small picnic area and play area next to it and adding some toilets and a payphone, except that it likely wouldn't fulfil the requirements for number of parking spaces available. Even if you did, though, I doubt it would be cost-effective to maintain.
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A6(NI) dualling to start

Post by nirs »

Well, unbelievably, with work due to begin in just a couple of weeks, an environmental group has said its going to mount a legal challenge that could delay or even scupper this scheme. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37390499
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Re: A6(NI) dualling to start

Post by Enceladus »

So some tree- hugging group is going to try to stop a critically needed scheme that will save lives as well as cutting journey times.

Selfish b@stards!! :evil: :x

I hope it's dealt with quickly and thrown out of court. The A6 scheme is urgently required.
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Re: A6(NI) dualling to start

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While reading about this and the A5 scheme, I can't help wondering if there would be so many problems if they were both in the Irish Republic?
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A6(NI) dualling to start

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Owain wrote:While reading about this and the A5 scheme, I can't help wondering if there would be so many problems if they were both in the Irish Republic?
I would say yes. Tara and Carrickmines both come to mind
I've looked into this. One point in the challenge is that the EIA for the scheme was published in 2007 and is now almost a decade old. It is conceivable that something could have materially changed in that time interval. If so, and if TransportNI have not taken it into account, the objectors may well have a valid legal point. We'll have to wait and see.
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Re: A6(NI) dualling to start

Post by Owain »

I am coming back in a few weeks' time. I'm sailing to Belfast instead of Dublin, partly because I greatly prefer Stenaline to P&O, but also because I greatly prefer the reasonably enjoyable A6 to the dreadful A5.
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Re: A6(NI) dualling to start

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Re: A6(NI) dualling to start

Post by Berk »

nirs wrote:
Owain wrote:While reading about this and the A5 scheme, I can't help wondering if there would be so many problems if they were both in the Irish Republic?
I would say yes. Tara and Carrickmines both come to mind
I've looked into this. One point in the challenge is that the EIA for the scheme was published in 2007 and is now almost a decade old. It is conceivable that something could have materially changed in that time interval. If so, and if TransportNI have not taken it into account, the objectors may well have a valid legal point. We'll have to wait and see.
As you know, the A6 was mired in the planning process, and then had funding issues, so it wasn't progressed more quickly. If it had, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation now.

I have to say, the legal challenge is barefaced-cheek. Why?? Well the EIA is an integral part of the planning process. So if someone makes a challenge to that, it's basically going back to square one, forcing the department to look again at its plans. Maybe even requiring another public inquiry.

Why didn't Chris Murphy make his objections known at the time. Coming forward after 10 years is most unreasonable, in my view.
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Re: A6(NI) dualling to start

Post by orudge »

Is he friends with a Mr Walton by any chance?
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