M621 (was M1) Leeds

[M4Simon]

I've been in Leeds most of this week, and won't be reunited with my old maps for a few more days. Can anyone point me towards some online maps showing the layout of the former M1 and M621 termini before the two motorways were connected.

Secondly, was this connection built at the same time as the M1 extension or does it predate it?

Simon

[Bryn666]

I've attached a before and after map for you. The south-westerly entry slip was completely re-aligned, and a secondary entry was removed to accommodate today's flyover.

The completion of the interchange was in time for the conversion to M621, I think a year or so before.

[Truvelo]

The Wiki article for the junction shows how the original layout was meant to be completed if you're interested.

[wrinkly]

Secondly, was this connection built at the same time as the M1 extension or does it predate it?

It predates it by a few years.

[M4Simon]

I've attached a before and after map for you. The south-westerly entry slip was completely re-aligned, and a secondary entry was removed to accommodate today's flyover.

The completion of the interchange was in time for the conversion to M621, I think a year or so before.

Thanks all. From reading round this subject, would I be right in thinking that all M1 traffic went round the single lane 270 degree loop towards the bottom of Bryn's scan? If so, how bad were the queues?

Simon

[Truvelo]

M1 to M621 westbound has always been possible. It was only eastbound that had to negotiate the gyratory. The loop is just for local traffic. Both the dashed lines on Bryn's map near the loop are westbound carriageways.

[Bryn666]

There was a direct connector from the M1 to the M621, as today, it was the other direction that involved a trip through the gyratory.

[Owain]

We spend a lot of time grumbling about roads that could and should be better, but I think the M621 is a great little road.

At peak times it does gets a bit clogged in the area being discussed, but it otherwise works very well. Getting from there to the city centre, and also to the A58(M)/A64(M) is relatively easy. It is blessed with free-flow junctions to the rest of the network, and much of it is D3M. Few cities have the benefit of such a motorway passing so close to their heart.

I think it's a job well done.

[M4Simon]

We spend a lot of time grumbling about roads that could and should be better, but I think the M621 is a great little road.

At peak times it does gets a bit clogged in the area being discussed, but it otherwise works very well. Getting from there to the city centre, and also to the A58(M)/A64(M) is relatively easy. It is blessed with free-flow junctions to the rest of the network, and much of it is D3M. Few cities have the benefit of such a motorway passing so close to their heart.

I think it's a job well done.

I've just figured out that the western section (M62 to junction 1 or 2) is lopsided, with the westbound D3M and eastbound D2M. It seems to work well though.

Simon

[Bryn666]

That's mostly due to the hill - the same applies to the M606.

[jackal]

We spend a lot of time grumbling about roads that could and should be better, but I think the M621 is a great little road.

At peak times it does gets a bit clogged in the area being discussed, but it otherwise works very well. Getting from there to the city centre, and also to the A58(M)/A64(M) is relatively easy. It is blessed with free-flow junctions to the rest of the network, and much of it is D3M. Few cities have the benefit of such a motorway passing so close to their heart.

I think it's a job well done.

I quite agree, and was a little surprised when I heard about HE's M621 junctions scheme. Yes, there's a right hand entry and some tight weaving spaces, but these would be very expensive to fix, so maybe they're just looking at widening slip roads etc.

[Bryn666]

There's not much you can do with the limited amount of space available throughout most of the M621.

Personally? I'd get rid of J2A. It'll upset the locals a little but it stuffs up the approach to J3 with the excessive amounts of weaving it generates. Likewise you could remove J6 by providing a short (0.5km or so) link from J7 towards Belle Isle Circus.

[Bryn666]

As always when these threads crop up, I've got my crayons out.

This plan seeks to remove the gyratory and improve the gateway into central Leeds from the motorway, along with capacity improvements to the M621 itself.

Given the redvelopment plans around J3, this may tidy the area up a little.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?hl=e ... 36056&z=13

[Debaser]

Likewise you could remove J6 by providing a short (0.5km or so) link from J7 towards Belle Isle Circus.

As a (semi) regular user of J7 I'd rather you didn't. Three routes from Wakey and the south coming together with the industrial estate that is now Stourton and the rail distribution site (oh, and the park and ride site for Leeds Supertram...NGT...the improved bus system park and ride).
[shudder]

[Bryn666]

Likewise you could remove J6 by providing a short (0.5km or so) link from J7 towards Belle Isle Circus.

As a (semi) regular user of J7 I'd rather you didn't. Three routes from Wakey and the south coming together with the industrial estate that is now Stourton and the rail distribution site (oh, and the park and ride site for Leeds Supertram...NGT...the improved bus system park and ride).
[shudder]

I'm sure some disco balls on sticks scattered around the gyratory would fix all that

(as a proud Lanky Lancastrian it's in my interest to ensure that Leeds becomes about as viable as a chocolate teapot )

[Debaser]

(as a proud Lanky Lancastrian it's in my interest to ensure that Leeds becomes about as viable as a chocolate teapot )

That's very kind of you, but I can assure you Leeds City Council can do that job all by themselves.

[stu531]

(as a proud Lanky Lancastrian it's in my interest to ensure that Leeds becomes about as viable as a chocolate teapot )

Arf arf!

Actually I wonder how much of this will change as a result of the HS2 stop at Leeds New Lane railway station being built...

[Owain]

There's not much you can do with the limited amount of space available throughout most of the M621.

Personally? I'd get rid of J2A. It'll upset the locals a little but it stuffs up the approach to J3 with the excessive amounts of weaving it generates.....

As a regular user, it doesn't seem much of a problem. There is a 50 limit which seems to be widely respected, and because people from Leeds are all nice, there's always somebody who'll let you out.

As always when these threads crop up, I've got my crayons out.

This plan seeks to remove the gyratory and improve the gateway into central Leeds from the motorway, along with capacity improvements to the M621 itself.

Given the redvelopment plans around J3, this may tidy the area up a little.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?hl=e ... 36056&z=13

It doesn't resolve my main problem though, which is remembering to turn off at J4 for the A61. As the J4 exit comes so soon after the exit for J3 - and before you've even reached the entry slip from J3! - it is easy to miss.

[Bryn666]

It is very sudden but the signs are a lot better than they used to be!

[lefthandedspanner]

I quite agree, and was a little surprised when I heard about HE's M621 junctions scheme. Yes, there's a right hand entry and some tight weaving spaces, but these would be very expensive to fix, so maybe they're just looking at widening slip roads etc.

Realigning some of the sliproads would definitely be a welcome move. The westbound entry slip at junction 2 is particularly fearsome, as it's completely blind until the last minute and the merge is very short even for a 50 mph limit.

And the westbound entry from junction 4 is possibly the only place on the motorway network where you have to merge twice to stay on the main line, within the space of a mile. The combination of the tight bend on the sliproad and entering in the exit lane for the next junction (all of 300 yards away) makes the entry itself pretty hairy too.