Given that they managed to make 3 lanes from 2 at Gateshead under bridges where there was no shoulder to start with, I'm sure they'll manage.Conekicker wrote:The hardshoulder on the M621 tends to be on the narrow side, with little to no scope for widening in many places. It will be interesting to see how they convert it into an extra running lane. Presumably whatever the overall width of blacktop is will simply be divided up across the required number of lanes, albeit narrow ones.
M621 (was M1) Leeds
Moderator: Site Management Team
Re: M621 (was M1) Leeds
- Conekicker
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Re: M621 (was M1) Leeds
Bit tight through this bit, with very little scope for widening:wrinkly wrote:Given that they managed to make 3 lanes from 2 at Gateshead under bridges where there was no shoulder to start with, I'm sure they'll manage.Conekicker wrote:The hardshoulder on the M621 tends to be on the narrow side, with little to no scope for widening in many places. It will be interesting to see how they convert it into an extra running lane. Presumably whatever the overall width of blacktop is will simply be divided up across the required number of lanes, albeit narrow ones.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.78171 ... 6656?hl=en
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.
Re: M621 (was M1) Leeds
"Preferred route" announced.
Press release
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/m621 ... into-leeds
The rest can be found by following links in the press release:
Scheme page
http://roads.highways.gov.uk/projects/m ... ns-1-to-7/
Public consultation report
https://highwaysengland.citizenspace.co ... mended.pdf
Preferred route announcement
https://highwaysengland.citizenspace.co ... igital.pdf
Press release
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/m621 ... into-leeds
The rest can be found by following links in the press release:
Scheme page
http://roads.highways.gov.uk/projects/m ... ns-1-to-7/
Public consultation report
https://highwaysengland.citizenspace.co ... mended.pdf
Preferred route announcement
https://highwaysengland.citizenspace.co ... igital.pdf
Re: M621 (was M1) Leeds
Cheers Wrinkly.
Bit of a shame that - the lesser of the 3 options. I'm sure that it'd have been very useful to include the third lane between at least 3 and 4, never mind between 1 and 2 to prevent lane switching.
Unambitious I'd say... but money is always the reason.
Bit of a shame that - the lesser of the 3 options. I'm sure that it'd have been very useful to include the third lane between at least 3 and 4, never mind between 1 and 2 to prevent lane switching.
Unambitious I'd say... but money is always the reason.
Re: M621 (was M1) Leeds
Orders published for consultation, available here: https://highwaysengland.co.uk/projects/ ... to-7/#news
Is there a road improvement project going on near you? Help us to document it on the SABRE Wiki - help is available in the Digest forum.
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Get involved! - see our guide to scanning and stitching maps
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Get involved! - see our guide to scanning and stitching maps
Re: M621 (was M1) Leeds
This scheme is rumbling on and is supposed to finish in 2022-23. It's based on the lesser of the three options (option A), though seems to have been watered down further since the 2018 PRA by dropping one of the proposed SLTs at J2. The one SLT they are putting in is useful, and the proposed widening of the ridiculous one lane section is essential. Even so it seems a missed opportunity, with lots of low hanging fruit left on the tree - the more ambitious option C was far more popular in consultation, and much of the M621 could do with ALR, really. As mentioned above I don't really agree with closing J2A westbound when a barrier or even just paint could be used to eliminate weaving with J3.
General arrangement plans: https://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/ro ... ul2019.pdf
Scheme page (including various detailed reports): https://highwaysengland.co.uk/our-work/ ... ns-1-to-7/
There have also been big changes at M621 J7, where Stourton Park and Ride recently opened. The junction now has a heavily signalised and rather eccentric layout (it's on OSM/Sabre Maps but not Google Maps). You fear the worst...
General arrangement plans: https://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/ro ... ul2019.pdf
Scheme page (including various detailed reports): https://highwaysengland.co.uk/our-work/ ... ns-1-to-7/
There have also been big changes at M621 J7, where Stourton Park and Ride recently opened. The junction now has a heavily signalised and rather eccentric layout (it's on OSM/Sabre Maps but not Google Maps). You fear the worst...
Re: M621 (was M1) Leeds
At least it's better than the previous two close merges from the M1 and then the A61, and then onto the roundabout/gyratory which essentially had a reversed right of way, leading to strangers to the layout - who should have had priority - slamming on their brakes, with their opposing numbers completely ignoring the internal give-way lines on the circulatory.
Re: M621 (was M1) Leeds
Agreed, very hard to be upset about it. Glad to see Leeds taking P&R seriously with this site and the one at J45. Manchester could learn something.Debaser wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:57At least it's better than the previous two close merges from the M1 and then the A61, and then onto the roundabout/gyratory which essentially had a reversed right of way, leading to strangers to the layout - who should have had priority - slamming on their brakes, with their opposing numbers completely ignoring the internal give-way lines on the circulatory.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: M621 (was M1) Leeds
Coming off the M621 northbound there were previously no lights, now there are three before you even get on the roundabout. Come on, it's pretty gratuitous.
The offside give way at the roundabout was indeed silly but there are a thousand more sensible ways of fixing that. And it certainly doesn't explain why they've butchered the perfectly good merge/lane gain from the A61:
Yes, the buses need dedicated access, but that isn't even a bus access point, it's just there to make car access to the P&R slightly easier and if it screws over the nasty commoners that aren't using the P&R, so much the better. It's the typical developer mentality run amok, because where the developer is the council there's no pushback.
The offside give way at the roundabout was indeed silly but there are a thousand more sensible ways of fixing that. And it certainly doesn't explain why they've butchered the perfectly good merge/lane gain from the A61:
Yes, the buses need dedicated access, but that isn't even a bus access point, it's just there to make car access to the P&R slightly easier and if it screws over the nasty commoners that aren't using the P&R, so much the better. It's the typical developer mentality run amok, because where the developer is the council there's no pushback.
Last edited by jackal on Wed Nov 03, 2021 14:02, edited 1 time in total.
Re: M621 (was M1) Leeds
Or a more rational description is it encourages use of the facility because Leeds city centre is no place for thousands of cars.jackal wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 13:55 Coming off the M621 northbound there were previously no lights, now there are three before you even get on the roundabout. Come on, it's pretty gratuitous.
The offside give way at the roundabout was indeed silly but there are a thousand more sensible ways of fixing that. And it certainly doesn't explain why they've butchered the perfectly good merge/lane gain from the A61:
Yes, the buses need dedicated access, but that isn't even a bus access point, it's just there to make car access to the P&R slightly easier and if it screws over the nasty commoners that aren't using the P&R, so much the better. It's typical developer mentality run amok, because where the developer is the council there's no pushback.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: M621 (was M1) Leeds
But is anyone really going to park and ride because they can access it say, 20 seconds quicker (rather than just freeflowing to the next lights along)? And does that tiny and speculative benefit really justify holding a much larger volume of traffic at superfluous lights, pumping CO2 into the air pointlessly?Bryn666 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 14:01Or a more rational description is it encourages use of the facility because Leeds city centre is no place for thousands of cars.jackal wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 13:55 Coming off the M621 northbound there were previously no lights, now there are three before you even get on the roundabout. Come on, it's pretty gratuitous.
The offside give way at the roundabout was indeed silly but there are a thousand more sensible ways of fixing that. And it certainly doesn't explain why they've butchered the perfectly good merge/lane gain from the A61:
Yes, the buses need dedicated access, but that isn't even a bus access point, it's just there to make car access to the P&R slightly easier and if it screws over the nasty commoners that aren't using the P&R, so much the better. It's typical developer mentality run amok, because where the developer is the council there's no pushback.
Re: M621 (was M1) Leeds
They're not superfluous lights though, unless you subscribe to the outdated model that only cars matter. This route has cyclists and other road users that high speed merges are effectively a death sentence for, and potentially there is now a new walking route from the P&R to all the employment sites on the A639 that will need factoring in. The signals here will also increase overall capacity because there are new movements from the M621 to A639 that were not there before, you had to undertake a long loop of the roundabout and slot into gaps in high speed traffic.jackal wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 15:15But is anyone really going to park and ride because they can access it say, 20 seconds quicker (rather than just freeflowing to the next lights along)? And does that tiny and speculative benefit really justify holding a much larger volume of traffic at superfluous lights, pumping CO2 into the air pointlessly?Bryn666 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 14:01Or a more rational description is it encourages use of the facility because Leeds city centre is no place for thousands of cars.jackal wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 13:55 Coming off the M621 northbound there were previously no lights, now there are three before you even get on the roundabout. Come on, it's pretty gratuitous.
The offside give way at the roundabout was indeed silly but there are a thousand more sensible ways of fixing that. And it certainly doesn't explain why they've butchered the perfectly good merge/lane gain from the A61:
Yes, the buses need dedicated access, but that isn't even a bus access point, it's just there to make car access to the P&R slightly easier and if it screws over the nasty commoners that aren't using the P&R, so much the better. It's typical developer mentality run amok, because where the developer is the council there's no pushback.
"Traffic lights increase CO2" is a canard; cars remaining on the M621 causes more CO2, which is what all these P&Rs are trying to address.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: M621 (was M1) Leeds
The way these chevron markings at the A61 merge were scrubbed off shows how these supposedly single lane approaches actually operated in the morning peak. A free-for-all merge of essentially four lanes, fortunately usually into a queue of stationary traffic ahead. A similar situation also occurred at the M1 merge. And then this. The times I was nearly wiped out by drivers on autopilot thinking this was just another roundabout and they had priority... I am more than happy to wait the few seconds the lights now take, at least the lane destination signage and those slight delays appear to have instilled a bit of discipline in drivers.jackal wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 13:55 Coming off the M621 northbound there were previously no lights, now there are three before you even get on the roundabout. Come on, it's pretty gratuitous.
The offside give way at the roundabout was indeed silly but there are a thousand more sensible ways of fixing that. And it certainly doesn't explain why they've butchered the perfectly good merge/lane gain from the A61:
Re: M621 (was M1) Leeds
We've already got the plans for the hub under city square and a pretty comprehensive network for the city.
- Conekicker
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Re: M621 (was M1) Leeds
When the M1 was extended I designed new signs for the M621. A "do minimum" scheme and a "total replacement". No prize for guessing which one happened.
Some of the really old signs still exist on there.
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.
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Re: M621 (was M1) Leeds
This scheme is supposed to be starting shortly, flyers have been distributed to local businesses to expect disruption from September