A358 Taunton to Southfields

[jackal]

Apparently there is a developer: https://www.somersetcountygazette.co.uk ... 358-plans/

As noted upthread, the time penalty caused by the multiple signals at J25 mean that “all those lovely miles of DC” will offer a slim advantage over the A303 at peak times and may offer no advantage all all off-peak. Given that the scheme is specifically intended to tempt A303 traffic over to the M5, and relieve the Blackdown Hills section of its strategic function, that is an absolute failure of design. When the new road is open, it must be reliably faster to get from Southfields Roundabout to Exeter via J25 than via Honiton, otherwise the project has not met one of its objectives.

I know what NH will do in this case, relegate the existing A303 between Southfields roundabout and the A30 junction to a B road with 40mph limits and HGV restrictions.

If this doesn't reduce the "through traffic" drastically then removing a section of the existing road would do so! An example is the old A30 halfway along Goss Moor in Cornwall when the new A30 was opened.

The plan is for the existing A303 through the Blackdown Hills to be de-trunked. It will revert to Devon County Council. Their intention is actually to upgrade it to provide a smoother single carriageway road and tidy up some of the more dangerous junctions, which is a level of ambition some way above a reduced speed limit or a closure. However, that only reinforces the need for the A358 scheme to deliver a much, much faster journey if Waze and Google Maps are to be persuaded to direct through traffic via M5 J25.

Do you have a source for this? I recall HE saying years ago that the A30/A303 rote would remain trunked, but have struggled to find the source. At any rate the DCC scheme was a (seemingly failed) attempt to win RIS money, which seems to imply that it would remain trunk.

[Bryn666]

Apparently there is a developer: https://www.somersetcountygazette.co.uk ... 358-plans/

I know what NH will do in this case, relegate the existing A303 between Southfields roundabout and the A30 junction to a B road with 40mph limits and HGV restrictions.

If this doesn't reduce the "through traffic" drastically then removing a section of the existing road would do so! An example is the old A30 halfway along Goss Moor in Cornwall when the new A30 was opened.

The plan is for the existing A303 through the Blackdown Hills to be de-trunked. It will revert to Devon County Council. Their intention is actually to upgrade it to provide a smoother single carriageway road and tidy up some of the more dangerous junctions, which is a level of ambition some way above a reduced speed limit or a closure. However, that only reinforces the need for the A358 scheme to deliver a much, much faster journey if Waze and Google Maps are to be persuaded to direct through traffic via M5 J25.

Do you have a source for this? I recall HE saying years ago that the A30/A303 rote would remain trunked, but have struggled to find the source. At any rate the DCC scheme was a (seemingly failed) attempt to win RIS money, which seems to imply that it would remain trunk.

I suspect lots of official denials but trunk road policy is to ditch undesirable and difficult to manage roads as quick as they can so I can't see why they would want to keep the A303 once the A358 is done.

[Norfolktolancashire]

I know what NH will do in this case, relegate the existing A303 between Southfields roundabout and the A30 junction to a B road with 40mph limits and HGV restrictions.

If this doesn't reduce the "through traffic" drastically then removing a section of the existing road would do so! An example is the old A30 halfway along Goss Moor in Cornwall when the new A30 was opened.

That’s a poor example. The old road was dug up thanks to an agreement with an environmental group.

Maybe it is, however it does stop any "rat runs" and forces most through traffic to use the new A30.

Thanks for the comment, I'll mark myself 2 out of 10 for accuracy, but 9 out of ten for ambition!

[solocle]

I know what NH will do in this case, relegate the existing A303 between Southfields roundabout and the A30 junction to a B road with 40mph limits and HGV restrictions.

If this doesn't reduce the "through traffic" drastically then removing a section of the existing road would do so! An example is the old A30 halfway along Goss Moor in Cornwall when the new A30 was opened.

That’s a poor example. The old road was dug up thanks to an agreement with an environmental group.

Maybe it is, however it does stop any "rat runs" and forces most through traffic to use the new A30.

Thanks for the comment, I'll mark myself 2 out of 10 for accuracy, but 9 out of ten for ambition!

Yep, I'd totally have cycled that Goss Moor section. It's not at all an impediment to NMUs using the old A30. No, the impediment was 15 miles of online dualled A30 across Bodmin Moor - with absolutely no way to bail out. So instead I went A39-A395.

I'd view such sections as desirable to acting as a barrier to motor traffic using the old road - it makes for better segregation. It does of course decrease the utility of the old road as a diversion route if there's a collision - but to a much lesser extent.

[Chris5156]

The plan is for the existing A303 through the Blackdown Hills to be de-trunked. It will revert to Devon County Council. Their intention is actually to upgrade it to provide a smoother single carriageway road and tidy up some of the more dangerous junctions, which is a level of ambition some way above a reduced speed limit or a closure. However, that only reinforces the need for the A358 scheme to deliver a much, much faster journey if Waze and Google Maps are to be persuaded to direct through traffic via M5 J25.

Do you have a source for this? I recall HE saying years ago that the A30/A303 rote would remain trunked, but have struggled to find the source. At any rate the DCC scheme was a (seemingly failed) attempt to win RIS money, which seems to imply that it would remain trunk.

I've just had a trawl through the forum archives to see if I can find a source for this, and have to hold my hands up and say there isn't one. It gets raised by various people at various times, but seems to stem from Devon CC's bid for RIS money to improve the A303 through the Blackdown Hills, which gave the impression that they were expecting to be in control of the road by RIS3. In truth they were just trying to set the agenda for a road that would remain trunk, rather like Cornwall Council's heavy involvement in some of the recent A30 works. But the impression that Devon would be taking over pops up repeatedly, not least from me, since I got the idea in my head and nothing else seems to have dislodged it. I do note that you have attempted to debunk it more than once, including where I've said it before.

So - lies and misinformation from me. Sorry about that! I appreciate being pulled up for it.

I will say, though, that I still disagree with the post I was replying to. If it's remaining trunk I do not see NH closing the road or implementing sweeping cuts to speed limits; it's already a very steady-going 50 for almost the entire length and 40 would be rather laughable. I suppose the Marsh bypass, currently a very short blast of NSL, might go down to 50 for consistency.

[jackal]

^ Cheers. Though no need for such a mea culpa - it seems quite a common view on this forum.

Councils have successfully developed RIS schemes, but the result is always that the project and (eventually) the completed road become HE/NH property, as with the A30 in Cornwall and the A120 Braintree to A12.

And yes, I don't imagine there will be any major speed limit reductions on the A30 in the Blackdown Hills, let alone closing it! NH will still have the responsibility to manage it as a strategic road.

[Richardf]

So, any ideas when work might actually start?

[Herned]

They haven't even applied for permission to build it! Starting in 2024 is the plan, opening in 2028, should all the stars align

[Richardf]

They haven't even applied for permission to build it! Starting in 2024 is the plan, opening in 2028, should all the stars align

Hopeless ( not you Herned, those in charge of the project)

[A9Dan]

Wasn't the original plan for the road to link to a new roundabout junction with the M5 west of J25, allowing long distance traffic to avoid the J25 area but it got changed after objections in the Henlade area? Sounds very much like the Dunkeld situation where there is a conflict between the local needs and the needs of the long distance traffic.

[Phil]

Wasn't the original plan for the road to link to a new roundabout junction with the M5 west of J25, allowing long distance traffic to avoid the J25 area but it got changed after objections in the Henlade area? Sounds very much like the Dunkeld situation where there is a conflict between the local needs and the needs of the long distance traffic.

Objections and route changes in the Henlade area do nothing to prevent the construction of free flow onto the M5.

What stops it is a business park being given planning permission right in the way of where the new road infrastructure would need to go AND said business park 'needing' access onto the new route.

in any other civilised country such a thing would not be entertained - but here in the UK with the penny pinching treasury looking for every excuse possible to not spend money and 'all development is good' mantra of the ruling party (aided by generous donations to the party from said developers) any provision for free flow was sacrificed for political ideology.

[Herned]

Wasn't the original plan for the road to link to a new roundabout junction with the M5 west of J25, allowing long distance traffic to avoid the J25 area but it got changed after objections in the Henlade area? Sounds very much like the Dunkeld situation where there is a conflict between the local needs and the needs of the long distance traffic.

The original HE plan was as you suggest. It was objected to because it meant traffic to Taunton would need to join the M5 for a short distance back to J25, and the concern was that traffic would use the old road as it is more direct. Also there were concerns the roundabout would be used as an access point for new development. HE went away and redesigned the scheme to link directly to J25 which is far more sensible as most traffic is actually going to Taunton. They also added a direct westbound link to the M5. However, this link was removed because it was too expensive, it's all in the consultation reports. Despite the fact that the benefits of the option with the link being much higher...

The business park plans came later, and it is utter idiocy that HE didn't insist on space being left for the direct link to be added in the future

[Chris5156]

Wasn't the original plan for the road to link to a new roundabout junction with the M5 west of J25, allowing long distance traffic to avoid the J25 area but it got changed after objections in the Henlade area? Sounds very much like the Dunkeld situation where there is a conflict between the local needs and the needs of the long distance traffic.

The original HE plan was as you suggest. It was objected to because it meant traffic to Taunton would need to join the M5 for a short distance back to J25, and the concern was that traffic would use the old road as it is more direct. Also there were concerns the roundabout would be used as an access point for new development. HE went away and redesigned the scheme to link directly to J25 which is far more sensible as most traffic is actually going to Taunton. They also added a direct westbound link to the M5. However, this link was removed because it was too expensive, it's all in the consultation reports. Despite the fact that the benefits of the option with the link being much higher...

The observation has been made before, but the "too expensive" part is one of the downsides of the RIS funding model: schemes are given a ballpark price at the outset, so that the list of projects and the total funding can be settled at the beginning of the five year period. National Highways then have to go produce designs for a project - in this case, an expressway from the A303 to the M5 - that comes in at the price already agreed. There's no scope to say that the funding needs to go up to account for inflation in the five years since the price was set, or to say that the detailed design has revealed a bigger project is required than was originally envisaged. The budget is set and you can only have as much road as you can afford. In this case it appears to have cost us the free-flow links.

[ajuk]

I thought the Nexus roundabout was built as part of this scheme, I don't understand why they built that roundabout without a stub for the new road though.
That signalised junction looks like a right mess, why would there be a need for 4 lanes of traffic coming from Henlade? They should just build a cloverleaf and be done with it.
I always assumed they would use the section of D2 from Henlade to the A378, otherwise, why build it?

Who animated that horse?

[Chris5156]

That signalised junction looks like a right mess, why would there be a need for 4 lanes of traffic coming from Henlade?

Queuing space. There isn’t much space for traffic waiting at the lights to queue back because it would foul the next junction. So instead multiple lanes are available to stack up the traffic. There will presumably be very little green time for traffic emerging from the Henlade direction because the A358 will get almost all of it.

[jackal]

There was a vague update on this on 1 June: they will apply for a DCO but don't know when. There's a similarly vague summary of the supplementary consultation, with no quantitative breakdown of responses, which might be a first. It does at least mention that "People asked for a bridge so that the A358 reaches the junction 25 roundabout without any junction at Nexus 25".

https://nationalhighways.co.uk/our-road ... uthfields/

[Keiji]

It does at least mention that "People asked for a bridge so that the A358 reaches the junction 25 roundabout without any junction at Nexus 25".

Let us pray.

[Hdeng16]

It does at least mention that "People asked for a bridge so that the A358 reaches the junction 25 roundabout without any junction at Nexus 25".

Let us pray.

Pray all you like - you'll get a hamburger at best!

[deadeye]

This route normally flows ok except the Junction 25\Henlade section.

If nothing else a bypass of Henlade would make a massive difference and should have been done about 30 years ago.

[fras]

This route normally flows ok except the Junction 25\Henlade section.

If nothing else a bypass of Henlade would make a massive difference and should have been done about 30 years ago.

Like every other road that gets built !! Always 30 years late or more .
The problem we have with UK politicians is they want the economy to grow but won't face up to the consequences of growth.