M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway
I'm glad to see that additional refuges are being installed.
Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway
Are they ever going to admit that the 2km refuge spacing was the stupidest idea they ever had for smart motorways and eroded virtually all goodwill towards the concept?
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway
But wasn't the original spacing, as advised to the then Minister of Transport for a much shorter interval ? You know more than me, but I'm sure the gap was widened without discussion.
Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway
The spacing on the M42 was 500-800m as directed by site conditions. This was determined to be over-provision especially given the amount of visual overload signals at similar distances gave and that's what led to the 2km figure for refuges and the reliance on MS4s alone instead of gantries every 500m. Just on a practical PR side they should never have agreed to anything beyond 1600m (1 mile) for refuges, regardless of what fancypants risk modelling and policy wonks think. The reason being simple, if people think something isn't safe you won't ever convince them that it is but saying you're never more than 30 seconds away from a refuge is a lot more reassuring from the get go than the cold "refuges are placed at 2km intervals" based on a risk assessment that doesn't factor in the human element of risk perception.fras wrote: ↑Sun Apr 10, 2022 22:37But wasn't the original spacing, as advised to the then Minister of Transport for a much shorter interval ? You know more than me, but I'm sure the gap was widened without discussion.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway
Some of the fourth lane northbound was open this morning. Didn't spot where it started, but I'm guessing it was a lane gain at Stafford services. I'll try to have a look later on my way home.
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway
Nothing had changed this morning up to J13 northbound where I got off - looking forward to seeing it open at long last.
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway
A quick calculation. At 120 km/h, one can cover 2 km in one minute. This means that if refuge areas are 2 km apart, you are never more than 30 seconds from one of them (you might have to go backwards rather than forwards).Bryn666 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 10, 2022 23:17 ... snip ...
The reason being simple, if people think something isn't safe you won't ever convince them that it is but saying you're never more than 30 seconds away from a refuge is a lot more reassuring from the get go than the cold "refuges are placed at 2km intervals" based on a risk assessment that doesn't factor in the human element of risk perception.
... but ...
will someone remind me what the speed limit is on British motorways when expressed in km/h?
Also, it takes a lot longer than 30 seconds to walk one kilometre.
Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway
Do you regularly do 120km/h backwards on motorways, then?Vierwielen wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 16:51A quick calculation. At 120 km/h, one can cover 2 km in one minute. This means that if refuge areas are 2 km apart, you are never more than 30 seconds from one of them (you might have to go backwards rather than forwards).Bryn666 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 10, 2022 23:17 ... snip ...
The reason being simple, if people think something isn't safe you won't ever convince them that it is but saying you're never more than 30 seconds away from a refuge is a lot more reassuring from the get go than the cold "refuges are placed at 2km intervals" based on a risk assessment that doesn't factor in the human element of risk perception.
... but ...
will someone remind me what the speed limit is on British motorways when expressed in km/h?
Also, it takes a lot longer than 30 seconds to walk one kilometre.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway
The extra lane starts at the works unit just north of the services I think.
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway
Assuming NSL, 112.6541 km/h.Vierwielen wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 16:51... but ...
will someone remind me what the speed limit is on British motorways when expressed in km/h?
Some motorways have speed limits below NSL (and in particular, smart motorways without hard shoulders tend to have variable speed limits). The various lower speed limits that can be selected by the VSL algorithm are approximately 96, 80, 64 and 48 km/h.
As Bryn666 mentions, though, it's generally inadvisable to try to reach a refuge that's behind you, when all the traffic on your carriageway is going forwards – if you're just past a refuge you would need to try to reach the next one, rather than going against the flow of traffic.
Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway
And if you were in serious difficulty it's not illegal to hit 999 on your mobile and tell them you are blocking a live traffic lane. This little detail is never really made obvious to the public - if you can't make it to a place of safety you have a valid 999 emergency.ais523 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 20:18Assuming NSL, 112.6541 km/h.Vierwielen wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 16:51... but ...
will someone remind me what the speed limit is on British motorways when expressed in km/h?
Some motorways have speed limits below NSL (and in particular, smart motorways without hard shoulders tend to have variable speed limits). The various lower speed limits that can be selected by the VSL algorithm are approximately 96, 80, 64 and 48 km/h.
As Bryn666 mentions, though, it's generally inadvisable to try to reach a refuge that's behind you, when all the traffic on your carriageway is going forwards – if you're just past a refuge you would need to try to reach the next one, rather than going against the flow of traffic.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway
This morning it was 4 lanes from J14 onwards.
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway
Only taken, what, 5 years? We could have built an entirely new motorway in less time... the whole point of smart motorways was meant to be they were quick to install and avoided the legal headaches of new alignments, so why are they all taking forever to complete?
Another reason the goodwill has gone.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway
So I’m very much out of the loop: why is it taking so long for the roadworks to complete? Is it really so they can install more refuges?
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway
Just over 4 so far I think. If I recall it started March 18 with a 4 year estimate, was miles ahead due to reduced traffic during Covid, then government demanded stopped vehicle detection and more refuges to try to quiet the "ITS ALL UNSAFE" moaners
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway
4 years still seems an absurd amount of time for what really constituted barrier replacement and installation of new comms. Sure it's about 20 miles of work but seriously?
For comparison; the M60 widening between J5-8 took 4 years and that was a complete rebuild with new structures and earthworks along the entire length. Incidentally, the single bridge replacement at M56 J11 is scheduled to take about 18 months. To replace one bridge. What is going on?
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway
M4 J12 to J8/9 took two years, but was delayed a year running three lanes, with 60 mph while they installed extra laybys and vehicle detection.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 13:044 years still seems an absurd amount of time for what really constituted barrier replacement and installation of new comms. Sure it's about 20 miles of work but seriously?
For comparison; the M60 widening between J5-8 took 4 years and that was a complete rebuild with new structures and earthworks along the entire length. Incidentally, the single bridge replacement at M56 J11 is scheduled to take about 18 months. To replace one bridge. What is going on?
J8/9 to J3 taken ages even though all the bridges were knocked down and replaced during Covid in 2020.
It's a joke that a 8 miles of HGDC on the A30 in Cornwall takes less time than a smart motorway conversion
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway
The three rail bridges needed substantial work if I remember correctly, but only because of decades of no maintenance.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 13:044 years still seems an absurd amount of time for what really constituted barrier replacement and installation of new comms. Sure it's about 20 miles of work but seriously?
....
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Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway
Something along the lines of "If you are trapped in a live lane on a motorway, call 999" is actually the recorded message that National Highways play on loop when you telephone them and are waiting for an operator to take the call. So that's one attempt to make it obvious to the public.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 09:48And if you were in serious difficulty it's not illegal to hit 999 on your mobile and tell them you are blocking a live traffic lane. This little detail is never really made obvious to the public - if you can't make it to a place of safety you have a valid 999 emergency.
There are a lot of borderline cases, though (e.g. I once saw a vehicle which had broken down in a part of the motorway without a "real" hard shoulder, but it had managed to pull far enough onto the verge that although it was slightly protruding into lane 1, there was room to just drive round it using the remaining width of lane 1). I decided that that probably wasn't a 999 emergency, but still merited reporting.
Re: M6 junction 13 to junction 15 smart motorway
4 lanes all the way northbound today (apart from a phantom lane closure between 13 and 14 for a supposed stranded vehicle - the new SVD seeing ghosts?). New signs (almost) all lit up. Still 60 both ways. Wonder when someone will be brave enough to sign it off for full-speed running...