The M23 and Crawley New Town
Moderator: Site Management Team
The M23 and Crawley New Town
There's currently a small exhibition running at Crawley Library with many old photographs focused on the building of the "New Town", especially from the '50s and '60s. Along with the photographs was a rather interesting map of the original New Town plan for Crawley, which of course I completely failed to take a photo of. However, there is a not-very-good scan here: https://westsussexrecordoffice.files.wo ... .jpg?w=768 and a line drawing of the road layout here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/westsusse ... 440004953/
Main point of interest is the "Provisional Route of the Brighton Radial" (aka the M23), which rather than curving round to meet the A23, heads south after crossing the main railway line, suggesting that at some point the plan was for the M23 to continue south of Crawley. Although it isn't clear on the version above, the layout for what is now junction 10 was also different, with the Balcombe Road (B2036) going through the roundabout as well.
Other points of interest is the A264 link to junction 10, which wasn't built until the '90s if I recall. The version that I saw also had a road running parallel to the railway between the south of Ifield and West Green, under the A23, which explains the rather sudden turn on Overdene Drive...
Main point of interest is the "Provisional Route of the Brighton Radial" (aka the M23), which rather than curving round to meet the A23, heads south after crossing the main railway line, suggesting that at some point the plan was for the M23 to continue south of Crawley. Although it isn't clear on the version above, the layout for what is now junction 10 was also different, with the Balcombe Road (B2036) going through the roundabout as well.
Other points of interest is the A264 link to junction 10, which wasn't built until the '90s if I recall. The version that I saw also had a road running parallel to the railway between the south of Ifield and West Green, under the A23, which explains the rather sudden turn on Overdene Drive...
I circumnavigated Britain solely using A-roads. Read about my 3500 mile journey here.
- Gareth Thomas
- Member
- Posts: 1719
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 13:43
- Location: Temple Ewell, Kent
- Contact:
Re: The M23 and Crawley New Town
Interesting links. I had always wondered if there were plans to extend the M23 beyond Crawley.
My journey with testicular cancer!
https://garethishalfnuts.wordpress.com/
"Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads..."
-Dr Emmett Brown
https://garethishalfnuts.wordpress.com/
"Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads..."
-Dr Emmett Brown
-
- Member
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2017 09:56
Re: The M23 and Crawley New Town
How interesting. Fascinating just how much town planning changes and old ideas tend to still linger around for years. Always found the M23 an odd little piece of motorway.
Re: The M23 and Crawley New Town
I think somebody looking at a map with no knowledge of timescale might see the M23 as basically being just a spur off the M25 for Gatwick that turns into a bypass for Crawley.TheUserName wrote:How interesting. Fascinating just how much town planning changes and old ideas tend to still linger around for years. Always found the M23 an odd little piece of motorway.
Re: The M23 and Crawley New Town
That's basically what it is. The A23 it replaces couldn't be improved online so a new offline route was built to avoid the built up areas. Further south the A23 is more rural so could be improved online (eventually!)
It was probably a quirk of timing that resulted in the route being half motorway, half all purpose. If the northern section had been built later it might have been A23 not M23 (and almost certainly have a simpler/cheaper junction with the M25). Less likely but also possible is the reverse. If the whole route had been improved earlier or even at the same time the whole M25 to Brighton route might be M23 not A23!
It was probably a quirk of timing that resulted in the route being half motorway, half all purpose. If the northern section had been built later it might have been A23 not M23 (and almost certainly have a simpler/cheaper junction with the M25). Less likely but also possible is the reverse. If the whole route had been improved earlier or even at the same time the whole M25 to Brighton route might be M23 not A23!
My latest Road Photos https://flic.kr/s/aHsktQHcMB
Re: The M23 and Crawley New Town
I drove the A23 from Gatwick to Westminster Bridge late on a Sunday night a few months ago. I was surprised how much of the bit that has been bypassed by the motorway is dualled. It's a good road for trying to get an impression of what motoring must have been like before the motorways.
Re: The M23 and Crawley New Town
I think you only have to look at Chichester to imagine what Crawley would be like without the M23! Unlike Chichester though as a New Town, Crawley was at least planned and laid out like this!Owain wrote:I drove the A23 from Gatwick to Westminster Bridge late on a Sunday night a few months ago. I was surprised how much of the bit that has been bypassed by the motorway is dualled. It's a good road for trying to get an impression of what motoring must have been like before the motorways.
I guess at quiet times driving the A23 town bypass is quite a nice experience. Wouldn't want to do it at rush hour though!
My latest Road Photos https://flic.kr/s/aHsktQHcMB
Re: The M23 and Crawley New Town
Some of it works well at rush hour, some less so. The bit that works best is the (wonderfully named) massive traffic light-filled 5-arm Tushmore Gyratory, while some of the smaller roundabouts suffer with long queues at peak times. Though newer than the bypass, the Hazelwick roundabout doesn't work so well either in the morning peak as it has a lot of right-turning traffic heading from the M23 to Manor Royal. Though the direction of the grade separation on that one favours those who work there and live nearby, as was the ideal of the new town.Richardf wrote: I think you only have to look at Chichester to imagine what Crawley would be like without the M23! Unlike Chichester though as a New Town, Crawley was at least planned and laid out like this!
I guess at quiet times driving the A23 town bypass is quite a nice experience. Wouldn't want to do it at rush hour though!
I circumnavigated Britain solely using A-roads. Read about my 3500 mile journey here.
Re: The M23 and Crawley New Town
Not so much M23 related, but I was astonished to discover the Horsham northern bypass (which links Horsham to Crawley and J10) was only built in the mid-80s.
It basically meant that Horsham and the surrounding area was completely detached from the motorway until then. So using a combination of A24 and A23 would've been less convenient too.
It basically meant that Horsham and the surrounding area was completely detached from the motorway until then. So using a combination of A24 and A23 would've been less convenient too.
Re: The M23 and Crawley New Town
Do we have motorways with gradients as steep as Handcross-Warninglid?? I've driven it a few times, and it's enioyable but still very steep - for a motorway, at least. And that's after it's been 'improved', too.Richardf wrote:That's basically what it is. The A23 it replaces couldn't be improved online so a new offline route was built to avoid the built up areas. Further south the A23 is more rural so could be improved online (eventually!)
It was probably a quirk of timing that resulted in the route being half motorway, half all purpose. If the northern section had been built later it might have been A23 not M23 (and almost certainly have a simpler/cheaper junction with the M25). Less likely but also possible is the reverse. If the whole route had been improved earlier or even at the same time the whole M25 to Brighton route might be M23 not A23!
Re: The M23 and Crawley New Town
Not really. The A264 still ran between Horsham and Crawley, it just went through Horsham town centre. While that would have been less convenient for traffic from the hinterland to the west, from the town itself the by-pass would have made little difference to access to the M23.Berk wrote:Not so much M23 related, but I was astonished to discover the Horsham northern bypass (which links Horsham to Crawley and J10) was only built in the mid-80s.
It basically meant that Horsham and the surrounding area was completely detached from the motorway until then. So using a combination of A24 and A23 would've been less convenient too.
Re: The M23 and Crawley New Town
The bypass still cuts a fair few miles off though.Stevie D wrote:Not really. The A264 still ran between Horsham and Crawley, it just went through Horsham town centre. While that would have been less convenient for traffic from the hinterland to the west, from the town itself the by-pass would have made little difference to access to the M23.Berk wrote:Not so much M23 related, but I was astonished to discover the Horsham northern bypass (which links Horsham to Crawley and J10) was only built in the mid-80s.
It basically meant that Horsham and the surrounding area was completely detached from the motorway until then. So using a combination of A24 and A23 would've been less convenient too.
Re: The M23 and Crawley New Town
The A264 Crawley South-Western bypass from M23 J11 to what is now A2220 Horsham Road was even later, built in the early '90s. Until then traffic from Horsham had to use the Crawley bypass/ Crawley Avenue to get to the M23 at J10, now there is access to J11 instead.Berk wrote:Not so much M23 related, but I was astonished to discover the Horsham northern bypass (which links Horsham to Crawley and J10) was only built in the mid-80s.
It basically meant that Horsham and the surrounding area was completely detached from the motorway until then. So using a combination of A24 and A23 would've been less convenient too.
The whole route around Horsham on the A24/A264 and then on to J11 is great if you are a fan of roundabouts.
I circumnavigated Britain solely using A-roads. Read about my 3500 mile journey here.
Re: The M23 and Crawley New Town
Apols for resurrecting an old thread but the Crawley bypass (from Tilgate to Northgate / Manor Royal) was opened in the late 30's. There's a thread on the Sussex History forum showing the early days - http://sussexhistoryforum.co.uk/index.p ... 3#msg64993 and I've taken the liberty of saving a couple of the images so you can see them here.
The A23 to the west of RAF Gatwick remained open during the war though civilan traffic was limited through rationing and enhanced security. The Horley - Handcross section, i.e the original course of the A23 through Crawley was a turnpike though what is now the B2036 from the Chequers in Horley also became a turnpike in the early 19th C.
I used to regularly cycle commute on the A23 between Crawley and Warninglid and I can remember taking the MTB along the old southbound carriageway between Pease Pottage https://goo.gl/maps/xEYqwX643QKiPqM28 and Handcross https://goo.gl/maps/gHDPhiRtbVCYQGYd8 in 96 / 97 not long after they'd 'turfed it over'. I have a vague recollection the old carriageway was left in situ
The A23 to the west of RAF Gatwick remained open during the war though civilan traffic was limited through rationing and enhanced security. The Horley - Handcross section, i.e the original course of the A23 through Crawley was a turnpike though what is now the B2036 from the Chequers in Horley also became a turnpike in the early 19th C.
I used to regularly cycle commute on the A23 between Crawley and Warninglid and I can remember taking the MTB along the old southbound carriageway between Pease Pottage https://goo.gl/maps/xEYqwX643QKiPqM28 and Handcross https://goo.gl/maps/gHDPhiRtbVCYQGYd8 in 96 / 97 not long after they'd 'turfed it over'. I have a vague recollection the old carriageway was left in situ
Re: The M23 and Crawley New Town
The then new Crawley bypass was very obvious from the air as this German Luftwaffe image from 16 Aug 1940 clearly shows
© NCAP
Aircrews were known to follow railway lines so this bright concrete road must have been very useful to friend and foe. I also believe the Winchester bypass (A33) was built at a similar time and it also appears to have been quite visible
© NCAP
© NCAP
Aircrews were known to follow railway lines so this bright concrete road must have been very useful to friend and foe. I also believe the Winchester bypass (A33) was built at a similar time and it also appears to have been quite visible
© NCAP
Re: The M23 and Crawley New Town
This appears to show the northern end laid out for future grade separation, which I’ve never seen on a road project of that era. What a fascinating discovery! Thank you for sharing it.
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: The M23 and Crawley New Town
You're welcome
Here's a zoomed in version from a different sortie © NCAP Sortie GX/10021 frame L-0095 7 Sep 1940
Unfortunately I haven't come across any post war Op Revue RAF sorties of this area online as these are of a much higher quality