Thames Crossing Proposals

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Micro The Maniac
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Re: Woolwich ferry

Post by Micro The Maniac »

WHBM wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 01:52 I really think TfL have given up on it. When it was run by contractors they could at least wave this at them and tell them to get it sorted out and running again. Since they took it over directly themselves a year ago there's no longer any incentive to bother. And they don't.
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c2R
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

Post by c2R »

Yes, I had to travel to Greenwich a couple of times in December - this resulted in me needing to drive further to use the Blackwall Tunnel instead, and pay (and recharge) the diesel charge.
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WHBM
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

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Really is useless of TfL to just do this "until further notice" message (in fact not even that). Surely they must have some idea of how long whatever works are in hand might take, especially after having been at it for a month. No idea given whether it's just today, this week, another month, whatever. I can't believe whoever is working on this has not given them at least an outline programme.

The two new vessels are still on berth. There was talk of sending them back to the shipyard in Poland to attend to their innumerable faults. I do wonder if they are now out of warranty, or worse have been found to be unfixable.
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Re: Woolwich ferry

Post by Scratchwood »

WHBM wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 01:52 And just to revitalise this, the ferry has been out of action again, throughout December, blandly described as "emergency engineering works".

I really think TfL have given up on it. When it was run by contractors they could at least wave this at them and tell them to get it sorted out and running again. Since they took it over directly themselves a year ago there's no longer any incentive to bother. And they don't. Doubtless the next thing that will happen, if it is ever fixed, is the crews will then go on strike again, as before, because despite being stood down on full basic pay they have had no opportunities for overtime.

A 19th century Act of Parliament requires it to run, and TfL are the successors to the original providers. One wonders what remedy there is if they don't provide what is required. Can DfT take them to court ? The squandering of money on the new wonderships, all trendy hybrid electric which have never, ever, worked properly, and rebuilt terminals, seems to have been complete money down the drain.
It's a disgrace, and one which isn't getting the coverage it should.
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ROAD ROVER
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Re: Woolwich ferry

Post by ROAD ROVER »

Scratchwood wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:35 It's a disgrace, and one which isn't getting the coverage it should.
Many/most(?) Government mega-spends are a complete waste of money & because governments don't have their own money & only waste taxpayer contributions, why would they want it advertised? Though this would indicate some level of state control of the media.

Surely not.
WHBM
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

Post by WHBM »

Woolwich Ferry out of action yet again this month, with a one liner from TfL : "Technical fault. Use alternative crossings".

I tried it two weeks ago, and although not a huge queue the flashing sign of "Over one hour delay" was being displayed. I tried asking the hi-viz'd queue attendant what the issue was, but they appeared not to speak English. Probably down to one boat. Then, having used the Blackwall Tunnel daily in recent weeks, about a week ago it was on the VMS 'Woolwich Ferry Suspended' (a bit pointless when you are already on the Blackwall Tunnel Approach Road !!), and has been so every day since.

The next step presumably, as before, is the crews will get paid their basic wage for the week, and then go on strike because they were denied the opportunity for overtime (don't disbelieve, this one has happened more than once recently).
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

Post by Scratchwood »

Another 2 week closure on the Woolwich Ferry, when it's already been reduced to a one boat weekday service to improve reliability. A complete shambles since the new boats entered service, combining with the poor industrial relations.
TfL said today that the latest closure “will enable key engineering works and upgrades to take place, such as the installation of a new pontoon guiderail and works on the north and south operational docking areas to support the long-term reliability of the ferry service”. Work will also take place to widen the area where traffic waits to board the boats.

Tricia Ashton, TfL’s director of rail and sponsored services, said: “We apologise for any inconvenience caused to our customers from the planned closure of the Woolwich Ferry. During the closure, we will be working hard on key engineering works and upgrades that will enhance the ferry’s service and long-term reliability. We advise people to use alternative crossings and plan their journeys before they travel while the ferry is closed.”
https://853.london/2023/02/16/shoddy-wo ... ade-works/
Scratchwood
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

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WHBM
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

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It only works 7am to 7pm on weekdays now, nothing at weekends, and generally a one-boat service while the other brand-new one stands idle. I've been given to believe it is like this so they can just have two crews employed, one per boat. And going to be shut down all summer.

It is noticeable that a number of transport facilities which were operated by contractors or franchisees had political campaigns to "take back into the public sector", which when that actually happens, as here, ends up with a far worse service than before. Because they don't have to bother any more. And they don't.
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

Post by Phil »

WHBM wrote: Sat Jun 17, 2023 23:24 It only works 7am to 7pm on weekdays now, nothing at weekends, and generally a one-boat service while the other brand-new one stands idle. I've been given to believe it is like this so they can just have two crews employed, one per boat. And going to be shut down all summer.

It is noticeable that a number of transport facilities which were operated by contractors or franchisees had political campaigns to "take back into the public sector", which when that actually happens, as here, ends up with a far worse service than before. Because they don't have to bother any more. And they don't.
Sorry to burst your capitalist bubble but since it got nationalised the train operator now branded as LNER has in fact been constantly rated as one of the best UK train operators! Similarly since the nationalisation of Northern the feedback from users is that things are definitely getting better!

Meanwhile the 'private' Avanti and GTR continue to lurch from crisis to crisis with passenger satisfaction at rock bottom.

Even more damming is the fact that if you look at some of the most competent rail operations what you will find is their bosses actually cut their managerial teeth under the nationalised British Rail - an organisation (which contrary to what the right wing press would have you believe) invested a lot of time and money developing their internal talent* and its no surprise that they have generally gone on to have great success post privatisation - in stark contrast to the many flash outsiders the private sector bought in to the industry.

What you need to appreciate is that contrary to Tory party dogma / right wing media headlines, it really doesn't matter who owns an operation, what is CRITICAL is for parent bodies (be they shareholders, CEOS with grand designs, Politicians or Whitehall mandarins) to not interfere BUT to trust those who know what works and give them adequate funding.

If the owners do that and are willing to let talented mangers get on with the job then the results, be they staff relations or service provision or customer care be good. If shareholders, owners, banks or politicians start messing round with things they don't understand its very easily to mess things up.

Besides the private sector has its fair share of screw ups - you would do well to remember Gerald Ratner, whose jewellery business nearly collapsed in 1991 after he jokingly denigrated the company's products.
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KeithW
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

Post by KeithW »

Phil wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2023 04:55
WHBM wrote: Sat Jun 17, 2023 23:24 It only works 7am to 7pm on weekdays now, nothing at weekends, and generally a one-boat service while the other brand-new one stands idle. I've been given to believe it is like this so they can just have two crews employed, one per boat. And going to be shut down all summer.

It is noticeable that a number of transport facilities which were operated by contractors or franchisees had political campaigns to "take back into the public sector", which when that actually happens, as here, ends up with a far worse service than before. Because they don't have to bother any more. And they don't.
Sorry to burst your capitalist bubble but since it got nationalised the train operator now branded as LNER has in fact been constantly rated as one of the best UK train operators! Similarly since the nationalisation of Northern the feedback from users is that things are definitely getting better!
I concur, since November last year I have had to take the train to London from Darlington a number of times and have been very impressed. For anyone who has mobility problems the LNER assisted travel service is excellent. They picked me up at the station entrance in a motorised vehicle and took me literally to the train door.

https://www.lner.co.uk/the-east-coast-e ... ed-travel/
https://www.lner.co.uk/globalassets/lne ... ---web.pdf
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

Post by WHBM »

Sorry to burst your capitalist bubble but since it got nationalised the train operator now branded as LNER has in fact been constantly rated as one of the best UK train operators! Similarly since the nationalisation of Northern the feedback from users is that things are definitely getting better!
Hmmm ... and yet, in The Guardian (not normally regarded as having 'right wing media headlines') today :

"TransPennine Express services ‘worse’ under state-owned OLR"

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/t ... 8e95&ei=21

and getting back on topic, the same applies to the Woolwich Ferry.
Last edited by WHBM on Wed Jun 21, 2023 15:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Bryn666
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

Post by Bryn666 »

WHBM wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2023 15:08
Sorry to burst your capitalist bubble but since it got nationalised the train operator now branded as LNER has in fact been constantly rated as one of the best UK train operators! Similarly since the nationalisation of Northern the feedback from users is that things are definitely getting better!
Hmmm ... and yet, in The Guardian (not normally regarded as having 'right wing media headlines') today :

"TransPennine Express services ‘worse’ under state-owned OLR"

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/t ... 8e95&ei=21
You are aware that restructuring and fixing something doesn't happen overnight? It must be great living in your Singaporean-esque ivory tower sometimes...
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WHBM
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

Post by WHBM »

Bryn666 wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2023 15:10 It must be great living in your Singaporean-esque ivory tower sometimes...
I think that's aimed at me. Unfortunately for the allusion we have a house on the ground :)

Meanwhile ... a series of Blackwall Tunnel closures this summer, part of the major works, has the novel approach that the London bus that goes through the tunnel, number 108, will be split in two parts north and south of the river, at the Jubilee Underground stations, and bus passengers who use the train to link will not be charged extra for that. It must be some nifty Oyster card computer programming that allows that to be calculated

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/f ... 7731&ei=25

and further, continuing the theme from above, the Woolwich Ferry will actually run at weekends when this is happening as well. I wonder if extra steps will be taken to avoid - tide too high/damaged pier/crew strikes/fog/rope round propeller - or the other myriad issues it runs into.
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KeithW
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Re: Thames Crossing Proposals

Post by KeithW »

WHBM wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2023 15:08
Sorry to burst your capitalist bubble but since it got nationalised the train operator now branded as LNER has in fact been constantly rated as one of the best UK train operators! Similarly since the nationalisation of Northern the feedback from users is that things are definitely getting better!
Hmmm ... and yet, in The Guardian (not normally regarded as having 'right wing media headlines') today :

"TransPennine Express services ‘worse’ under state-owned OLR"

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/t ... 8e95&ei=21

and getting back on topic, the same applies to the Woolwich Ferry.

Transpennine Express and LNER are of course different entities and with the new management at TPE having only been in place for a month and new arrangements having to be made its no surprise that things are still settling down. The system as it now is with multiple train operating companies each trying to negotiate their own deals is a recipe for chaos. Its time to face facts I am afraid, the current franchise system has failed.
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