The future of smart motorways

[mikehindsonevans]

I'd recon 16 weeks if just works to paint, markings, studs, signs & installation of new SM radar stuff. However if additional ERA are being constructed I'd make it 26 weeks. At least they will still have the HS to use for traffic management for the final time.
I'm not aware of the condition of the carriageway on most of the DHSR sections, but they may also choose to reconstruct/resurface some of the lanes at the same time like they have done with most ALR schemes, in which case I'd make it 38 weeks.

Were the DHSR hard shoulders strengthened to full traffic bearing standards originally? If I was to calculate the traffic loading for Lane 1 on an ALR motorway it would be considerably more than on a part-time running lane.

In many cases the hard shoulder was strengthened as part of the work to resurface 3-lane motorways the first time it was needed - this allowed 2+2 contraflow while the other carriageway was resurfaced.

It may actually have happened decades ago.

I recall hard shoulders being completely dug out and fully rebuilt to match the main carriageway depth and build structures, way back in the 1990s when Paul Channon was Transport Minister. The reason was to facilitate the spreading use of contraflow working.

[JammyDodge]

Were the DHSR hard shoulders strengthened to full traffic bearing standards originally? If I was to calculate the traffic loading for Lane 1 on an ALR motorway it would be considerably more than on a part-time running lane.

Given how little traffic uses lane 1 of an ALR motorway (“it’s dangerous” ie “I don’t like looking through the big sheet of glass when I’m driving”) I can’t see it being an issue.

My experience is actually that people wont use Lane 2, as the HGVs will use lane 1. Lane 3 seems to have a magnet effect for many, as its not the 'fast lane', its not the 'slow lane' and its not where the hard shoulder was

The fact I was cruising at 70 in lane 2 on the M1, all on my own, while very slowly undertaking lane 3 was incredibly frustrating when I went home for Xmas. As I really don't enjoy undertaking at all because it is wrong, but I also couldn't overtake, as Lane 3 was rammed

[Big L]

73% avoid left lane.

[KeithW]

My experience is actually that people wont use Lane 2, as the HGVs will use lane 1. Lane 3 seems to have a magnet effect for many, as its not the 'fast lane', its not the 'slow lane' and its not where the hard shoulder was

The fact I was cruising at 70 in lane 2 on the M1, all on my own, while very slowly undertaking lane 3 was incredibly frustrating when I went home for Xmas. As I really don't enjoy undertaking at all because it is wrong, but I also couldn't overtake, as Lane 3 was rammed

It has been like that on motorways for decades, I cant say that ALR roads are any different. I have been on the D4M A1(M) South of Peterborough when traffic is quiet and had to move from Lane 1 to Lane 4 to overtake some numpty travelling at 68 in lane 3.

[A303Chris]

Out of interest is that when the hard shoulder colour changed from red to black? (I don't know if it was ever red on the M4, but in the North West hard shoulder always used to be red, but only a few stretches remain)

I think that was a quirk of the original Road Construction Units for the North West, as I remember all the hard shoulders in the North West were red. This was probably changed because of the cost of red pigment needed in the bitumen. We looked at surfacing roads red around Windsor Castle in the early 90s following a request by a councilor. When we discovered is was three times the cost, it was dropped.

[jnty]

Were the DHSR hard shoulders strengthened to full traffic bearing standards originally? If I was to calculate the traffic loading for Lane 1 on an ALR motorway it would be considerably more than on a part-time running lane.

Given how little traffic uses lane 1 of an ALR motorway (“it’s dangerous” ie “I don’t like looking through the big sheet of glass when I’m driving”) I can’t see it being an issue.

My experience is actually that people wont use Lane 2, as the HGVs will use lane 1. Lane 3 seems to have a magnet effect for many, as its not the 'fast lane', its not the 'slow lane' and its not where the hard shoulder was

The fact I was cruising at 70 in lane 2 on the M1, all on my own, while very slowly undertaking lane 3 was incredibly frustrating when I went home for Xmas. As I really don't enjoy undertaking at all because it is wrong, but I also couldn't overtake, as Lane 3 was rammed

I've sometimes been cruising in Lane 1, sometimes even behind a lorry, and found I'm passing an empty lane 2 and a platoon of traffic in lanes 3 and 4. At this point I tend to take the view that this is is just congested lanes moving at different speeds and it's OK to "keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right" as the highway code says, especially given that the immediate lane to my right is actually empty.

[Bryn666]

Out of interest is that when the hard shoulder colour changed from red to black? (I don't know if it was ever red on the M4, but in the North West hard shoulder always used to be red, but only a few stretches remain)

I think that was a quirk of the original Road Construction Units for the North West, as I remember all the hard shoulders in the North West were red. This was probably changed because of the cost of red pigment needed in the bitumen. We looked at surfacing roads red around Windsor Castle in the early 90s following a request by a councilor. When we discovered is was three times the cost, it was dropped.

The red was fly ash and other coal mining by-products. Once the coal mines shut that was the end of red hard shoulders in the NW. It caused a commotion when the M65 J1a-6 opened with black hard shoulders (there was a fatality a week after the motorway opened owing to someone walking in a live lane on a slip road that didn't even have a hard shoulder).

[Owain]

Out of interest is that when the hard shoulder colour changed from red to black? (I don't know if it was ever red on the M4, but in the North West hard shoulder always used to be red, but only a few stretches remain)

I think that was a quirk of the original Road Construction Units for the North West, as I remember all the hard shoulders in the North West were red. This was probably changed because of the cost of red pigment needed in the bitumen. We looked at surfacing roads red around Windsor Castle in the early 90s following a request by a councilor. When we discovered is was three times the cost, it was dropped.

The red was fly ash and other coal mining by-products. Once the coal mines shut that was the end of red hard shoulders in the NW. It caused a commotion when the M65 J1a-6 opened with black hard shoulders (there was a fatality a week after the motorway opened owing to someone walking in a live lane on a slip road that didn't even have a hard shoulder).

There's definitely been no red hard shoulder on the M4/M48 or M5/M50 in my lifetime. When I moved to Lancaster in 1996, I did notice the quirk.

I remember that many of the roads in Caerleon and the civic centre in Cardiff were red in the 1980s and '90s too, and considering the prominence of the mining industry in S. Wales this explains why. I'd assumed that it was for cosmetic reasons rather than cost; I don't remember Newport having them! Whether or not they are still red today, I don't know.

[Chris Bertram]

I think that was a quirk of the original Road Construction Units for the North West, as I remember all the hard shoulders in the North West were red. This was probably changed because of the cost of red pigment needed in the bitumen. We looked at surfacing roads red around Windsor Castle in the early 90s following a request by a councilor. When we discovered is was three times the cost, it was dropped.

The red was fly ash and other coal mining by-products. Once the coal mines shut that was the end of red hard shoulders in the NW. It caused a commotion when the M65 J1a-6 opened with black hard shoulders (there was a fatality a week after the motorway opened owing to someone walking in a live lane on a slip road that didn't even have a hard shoulder).

There's definitely been no red hard shoulder on the M4/M48 or M5/M50 in my lifetime. When I moved to Lancaster in 1996, I did notice the quirk.

I remember that many of the roads in Caerleon and the civic centre in Cardiff were red in the 1980s and '90s too, and considering the prominence of the mining industry in S. Wales this explains why. I'd assumed that it was for cosmetic reasons rather than cost; I don't remember Newport having them! Whether or not they are still red today, I don't know.

County Durham used to have red roads as well, again the availability of ash from the mining industry was a key factor in this.

[owen b]

The red was fly ash and other coal mining by-products. Once the coal mines shut that was the end of red hard shoulders in the NW. It caused a commotion when the M65 J1a-6 opened with black hard shoulders (there was a fatality a week after the motorway opened owing to someone walking in a live lane on a slip road that didn't even have a hard shoulder).

There's definitely been no red hard shoulder on the M4/M48 or M5/M50 in my lifetime. When I moved to Lancaster in 1996, I did notice the quirk.

I remember that many of the roads in Caerleon and the civic centre in Cardiff were red in the 1980s and '90s too, and considering the prominence of the mining industry in S. Wales this explains why. I'd assumed that it was for cosmetic reasons rather than cost; I don't remember Newport having them! Whether or not they are still red today, I don't know.

County Durham used to have red roads as well, again the availability of ash from the mining industry was a key factor in this.

Yes, red roads were commonplace in Durham when I was growing up in the 70s and early 80s. Specifically I quite clearly remember that Margery Lane in Durham city was red. It might be my imagination or my eyesight, but looking at Google Street View there still seems to be a hint of red and the road doesn't look like it's been resurfaced for a very long time : https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.77300 ... 384!8i8192

I've also found a photo of Claypath in Durham with a distinct reddish hue : https://www.onthemarket.com/details/8184176/#/photos/1

[XC70]

I think that was a quirk of the original Road Construction Units for the North West, as I remember all the hard shoulders in the North West were red. This was probably changed because of the cost of red pigment needed in the bitumen. We looked at surfacing roads red around Windsor Castle in the early 90s following a request by a councilor. When we discovered is was three times the cost, it was dropped.

The red was fly ash and other coal mining by-products. Once the coal mines shut that was the end of red hard shoulders in the NW. It caused a commotion when the M65 J1a-6 opened with black hard shoulders (there was a fatality a week after the motorway opened owing to someone walking in a live lane on a slip road that didn't even have a hard shoulder).

There's definitely been no red hard shoulder on the M4/M48 or M5/M50 in my lifetime. When I moved to Lancaster in 1996, I did notice the quirk.

I remember that many of the roads in Caerleon and the civic centre in Cardiff were red in the 1980s and '90s too, and considering the prominence of the mining industry in S. Wales this explains why. I'd assumed that it was for cosmetic reasons rather than cost; I don't remember Newport having them! Whether or not they are still red today, I don't know.

I lived in Caerleon 1985 - 1998, and don't remember there being many red roads. I have a vague recollection of maybe part of Lodge Road being red, but that was all rebuilt in 1991 and surfaced in normal black ashphalt.

[Owain]

I lived in Caerleon 1985 - 1998, and don't remember there being many red roads. I have a vague recollection of maybe part of Lodge Road being red, but that was all rebuilt in 1991 and surfaced in normal black ashphalt.

I went as a child ('80s) to see the amphitheatre, so it could have been just one road in the immediate vicinity of the site.

[XC70]

I lived in Caerleon 1985 - 1998, and don't remember there being many red roads. I have a vague recollection of maybe part of Lodge Road being red, but that was all rebuilt in 1991 and surfaced in normal black ashphalt.

I went as a child ('80s) to see the amphitheatre, so it could have been just one road in the immediate vicinity of the site.

Amazing how we remember certain obscure details from our childhood!

[Big L]

Im sure I remember red roads around Caernarfon Castle in the early 80s.

[2 Sheds]

There's definitely been no red hard shoulder on the M4/M48 or M5/M50 in my lifetime. When I moved to Lancaster in 1996, I did notice the quirk.

I remember that many of the roads in Caerleon and the civic centre in Cardiff were red in the 1980s and '90s too, and considering the prominence of the mining industry in S. Wales this explains why. I'd assumed that it was for cosmetic reasons rather than cost; I don't remember Newport having them! Whether or not they are still red today, I don't know.

County Durham used to have red roads as well, again the availability of ash from the mining industry was a key factor in this.

Yes, red roads were commonplace in Durham when I was growing up in the 70s and early 80s. Specifically I quite clearly remember that Margery Lane in Durham city was red. It might be my imagination or my eyesight, but looking at Google Street View there still seems to be a hint of red and the road doesn't look like it's been resurfaced for a very long time : https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.77300 ... 384!8i8192

I've also found a photo of Claypath in Durham with a distinct reddish hue : https://www.onthemarket.com/details/8184176/#/photos/1

Think I recall some red stretches on the A1 north of Durham and into Scotland in the mid sixties.

[fras]

When grandma took us to see Buckingham Palace sometime in the 50s, I remember the Mall was red. It may still be today !

[B1040]

On the M42, ALR means a lane drop at every junction. If the road is busy, you have a slightly tricky lane change as you approach every junction. This is off-putting to say the least, so I tend to get into lane 2 and drive at whatever (legal) speed keeps me out of L1. I am not familiar with many other schemes so can't comment on them.

[trickstat]

When grandma took us to see Buckingham Palace sometime in the 50s, I remember the Mall was red. It may still be today !

I haven't been down it for a while but I believe it still is.

[Peter Freeman]

On the M42, ALR means a lane drop at every junction. If the road is busy, you have a slightly tricky lane change as you approach every junction. This is off-putting to say the least, so I tend to get into lane 2 and drive at whatever (legal) speed keeps me out of L1. I am not familiar with many other schemes so can't comment on them.

This whole subject of lane usage on motorways is fascinating. Having grown up in the UK, and still often driving there, I'm well inculcated in the belief "keep to the left unless overtaking". However, having now lived in Australia for 40 years, and having driven extensively in the USA, I do appreciate the benefit of a laissez-faire approach that allows overtaking on the left (often referred to, hilariously, as 'undertaking').

We've had many discussions on Sabre about 'middle lane hogs', etc. And being stuck behind those people on D2 or D3 roads truly is maddening. However, I think UK drivers would die of apoplexy on AU motorways because that behaviour is common. That doesn't mean it's approved: some of our roads have periodic reminder signs instructing "keep left unless overtaking". But it is common - even for me!

The reason is that it avoids the problem you describe. Your practise of staying in lane 2 if you're not about to exit, would be standard here in AU. It makes perfect sense. You're not doing anyone a service by constantly changing lanes to stay legal. So relax and forget your guilt.

Just as a side-note, my remarks apply mainly to wide urban motorways, with frequent junctions and 100 km/hr speed limits. But many of your motorways, including the M42 near Birmingham, are not much different now. I also note that the Highway Code has changed since my youth, and explicitly allows undertaking in certain circumstances.

[Enceladus]

I think a few stretches of road in Northern Ireland from my 1980s childhood memories were red. The hard shoulders on the A roads nearly always tended to be red also.

Certainly a very popular surface dressing up there back then was (and still is to a certain extent) the distinctive speckled ashfelt and gypsum material.