Bad speed limits
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Bad speed limits
What are the worst speed limits you've seen on roads in the UK or Ireland?
Eg: 60km/h on rural dual carriageway
70mph single carriageway motorway
etc.
Eg: 60km/h on rural dual carriageway
70mph single carriageway motorway
etc.
it/he/they | aka computerfan0
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- Chris Bertram
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Re: Bad speed limits
Most 20mph limits. Maybe with the exception of *part-time* limits around school gates (i.e. not 24/7/365 limits).
Round here, Birmingham council has steadily been dropping the 40 limits on its arterial dual-carriageways to 30 for no evident reason, i.e. the only change in the characteristic of the road has been the speed limit itself. And new pieces of dual-carriageway such as the Northfield by-pass did not get a 40 limit in the first place.
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Re: Bad speed limits
First off, the 50mph "for environmental reasons" limits on the A470 and A483 HQDCs. They miss the main source of the emissions they're trying to cut down (NOx and particulates from diesels, especially trucks) and deeply erode the idea that speed limits are above all a tool for road safety, not agenda setting.
Secondly, blanket 50mph re-limiting on rural non primary routes. I can understand the need for targeted 50mph limits on some sections, but particular local authorities (Wrecsam, the two Cheshires especially) are dropping everything to 50 (sometimes even adding average speed camera enforcement) but don't provide any maintenance or improvements which would do much more to improve road safety.
Secondly, blanket 50mph re-limiting on rural non primary routes. I can understand the need for targeted 50mph limits on some sections, but particular local authorities (Wrecsam, the two Cheshires especially) are dropping everything to 50 (sometimes even adding average speed camera enforcement) but don't provide any maintenance or improvements which would do much more to improve road safety.
Built for comfort, not speed.
Re: Bad speed limits
There is an 80km/h limit on the N2 north of Monaghan town to Emyvale, despite being a (relatively narrow but) straight road.
Compare to many 100km/h NS roads which are both narrow and bendy.
Compare to many 100km/h NS roads which are both narrow and bendy.
it/he/they | aka computerfan0
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- Alderpoint
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Re: Bad speed limits
The 50mph limit on the southern part of Coventry eastern bypass (A46). This was all 70mph for about 20 years until the "improvements" at Tollbar results in an arbitrary transition to 50mph over a mile away from Toll bar - its too far. Needless to say the limit is almost universally ignored.
I can see the justification for the 50 limit under the new junction and along the A45/A46 multiplex where there are massive amounts of weaving traffic, despite this being 60mph prior to the improvements.
I can see the justification for the 50 limit under the new junction and along the A45/A46 multiplex where there are massive amounts of weaving traffic, despite this being 60mph prior to the improvements.
Let it snow.
Re: Bad speed limits
All 50mph limits on any DC or motorway.
Not in the UK or Ireland, but the most dangerous I've come across is the 90km/h on the N201 at Chambery, France.
Everyone doing the same speed = no-one can get to the lane they need in a safe manner.
Not in the UK or Ireland, but the most dangerous I've come across is the 90km/h on the N201 at Chambery, France.
Everyone doing the same speed = no-one can get to the lane they need in a safe manner.
- Chris Bertram
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Re: Bad speed limits
A45 between Cov and M42 still keeps its 60 limit despite all the at-grade crossings having been stopped up. There really is no good reason for that not to be NSL these days. And the 40 limit on the new diversion around the Birmingham Airport runway extension is tedious, that could easily be 50.Alderpoint wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 14:46 The 50mph limit on the southern part of Coventry eastern bypass (A46). This was all 70mph for about 20 years until the "improvements" at Tollbar results in an arbitrary transition to 50mph over a mile away from Toll bar - its too far. Needless to say the limit is almost universally ignored.
I can see the justification for the 50 limit under the new junction and along the A45/A46 multiplex where there are massive amounts of weaving traffic, despite this being 60mph prior to the improvements.
Warwickshire now has a lot of rural 50s and extended 40s near villages that appear to serve no useful purpose.
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Re: Bad speed limits
For me it has to be the blanket roll-out of 20 and 50 mph limits. Totally stupid, but probably the most stupid in recent months has been the 50 mph applied to virtually the whole of the A555 extensions. When I queried it with the team responsible, I was told "the model tells us the limit should be 50 mph". I can't help but think that the model is wrong when one see perfectly safe motoring 10 mph above the 50 mph. The only accidents I believe have been at the at-grade junctions and not speed-related at all.
The blanket 20 mph in the whole of Exeter is another barmy piece of political spite.
The blanket 20 mph in the whole of Exeter is another barmy piece of political spite.
Re: Bad speed limits
I does feel it should be 60, especially at the airport end, and should just drop to 40 at the junctions.fras wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 21:32 For me it has to be the blanket roll-out of 20 and 50 mph limits. Totally stupid, but probably the most stupid in recent months has been the 50 mph applied to virtually the whole of the A555 extensions. When I queried it with the team responsible, I was told "the model tells us the limit should be 50 mph". I can't help but think that the model is wrong when one see perfectly safe motoring 10 mph above the 50 mph. The only accidents I believe have been at the at-grade junctions and not speed-related at all.
I'd like to nominate the A556 at Mere - built to 70 mph standard, but features a 60 mph limit due to eco reasons, and then the 50 mph on the large sweeping bend by the Bowdon Roundabout - even though the much tighter older bends just off the M56 are NSL. Bonkers - if they upped each of the limits by 10 mph, they might be respected!
Re: Bad speed limits
I’m starting to see areas where development is slowly picking up, new suburbs and streets being built. That leads to local limits being reduced, and reduced again. The A15 south of Peterborough is a case in point.
Coming off the Fletton Parkway (J3), the Serpentine parkway currently has NSL. It’s proposed to be reduced soon to 40. However, this will make it congruent with the adjacent A15. I’m fairly sure that was NSL until the turn of the century.
Then came a 50 limit. Then came 40 limits at either end between Peterborough and Yaxley. Now it’s 40 throughout.
So from A1(M) J16, that’ll be 40 right from Yaxley to the A1139.
Coming off the Fletton Parkway (J3), the Serpentine parkway currently has NSL. It’s proposed to be reduced soon to 40. However, this will make it congruent with the adjacent A15. I’m fairly sure that was NSL until the turn of the century.
Then came a 50 limit. Then came 40 limits at either end between Peterborough and Yaxley. Now it’s 40 throughout.
So from A1(M) J16, that’ll be 40 right from Yaxley to the A1139.
Re: Bad speed limits
The default NSL of 60mph.
On many minor country roads this is clearly unattainable safely by anyone short of a rally driver, and only if they can guarantee there's never going to be oncoming traffic. It leads to weird nonsense like here
On many minor country roads this is clearly unattainable safely by anyone short of a rally driver, and only if they can guarantee there's never going to be oncoming traffic. It leads to weird nonsense like here
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Re: Bad speed limits
It is a limit, not a target.
Just because the limit is 60 does not mean it is attainable
Re: Bad speed limits
Wow. This is a can of worms you've opened.
I don't believe there are that many bad speed limits. They're obviously put in place for a reason, though in an ideal world they'd make other changes instead. Perhaps if people didn't rush about like morons all the time - and crucially, they could be trusted to judge the correct speed for themselves - said morons wouldn't need babying.
I don't believe there are that many bad speed limits. They're obviously put in place for a reason, though in an ideal world they'd make other changes instead. Perhaps if people didn't rush about like morons all the time - and crucially, they could be trusted to judge the correct speed for themselves - said morons wouldn't need babying.
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1973-2007 Never forgotten
- some extreme-right nutcase
1973-2007 Never forgotten
- Chris Bertram
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Re: Bad speed limits
But is it always a good reason? I have grave doubts about that.
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Re: Bad speed limits
Said morons shouldn't be driving at all. There's your problem, not people doing 60 mph on a dead straight S2 where you can see for a couple of miles. If you can't really deal with the morons, well, quite frankly I'd rather put up with them than have everyone treated like a moron.Arcuarius wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:47 Wow. This is a can of worms you've opened.
I don't believe there are that many bad speed limits. They're obviously put in place for a reason, though in an ideal world they'd make other changes instead. Perhaps if people didn't rush about like morons all the time - and crucially, they could be trusted to judge the correct speed for themselves - said morons wouldn't need babying.
Re: Bad speed limits
This. There are plenty of sensible speed limits in place, the problem arises when roads authorities use speed limits as either a quick fix instead of meaningful upgrades and/or to keep vocal minorities quiet.Chris Bertram wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 13:07But is it always a good reason? I have grave doubts about that.
Built for comfort, not speed.
Re: Bad speed limits
Which in turn brings them into disrepute. If lowered ones are unusual enough people will generally respect them, other than the type who'll ignore every limit anyway, on the assumption that they are there for a good and perhaps not immediately obvious reason.rhyds wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 13:15This. There are plenty of sensible speed limits in place, the problem arises when roads authorities use speed limits as either a quick fix instead of meaningful upgrades and/or to keep vocal minorities quiet.Chris Bertram wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 13:07But is it always a good reason? I have grave doubts about that.
Re: Bad speed limits
In the past, I've always stuck to signed speed limits because you could be reasonably sure there was a reason for them. Over the last 5-8 years however more and more spurious limits have shown up, the worst examples being when Gwynedd/North and Mid Wales Trunk Roads Agency checked over all their barriers and suddenly found that a lot of them weren't specified for NSL, cue rash of random short 50mph limits while they took 2-3 years to upgrade the barriers (if they could be bothered)Helvellyn wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 13:18Which in turn brings them into disrepute. If lowered ones are unusual enough people will generally respect them, other than the type who'll ignore every limit anyway, on the assumption that they are there for a good and perhaps not immediately obvious reason.rhyds wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 13:15This. There are plenty of sensible speed limits in place, the problem arises when roads authorities use speed limits as either a quick fix instead of meaningful upgrades and/or to keep vocal minorities quiet.Chris Bertram wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 13:07 But is it always a good reason? I have grave doubts about that.
Built for comfort, not speed.
- FosseWay
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Re: Bad speed limits
This. It is surely better to make rules that serve their purpose and are understood by most people most of the time, and then clobber the minority who take the pee even so, than to indulge in woolly thinking, see cause and effect where it doesn't exist and at the same time lose the majority's respect for what you're doing.Helvellyn wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 13:14Said morons shouldn't be driving at all. There's your problem, not people doing 60 mph on a dead straight S2 where you can see for a couple of miles. If you can't really deal with the morons, well, quite frankly I'd rather put up with them than have everyone treated like a moron.Arcuarius wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:47 Wow. This is a can of worms you've opened.
I don't believe there are that many bad speed limits. They're obviously put in place for a reason, though in an ideal world they'd make other changes instead. Perhaps if people didn't rush about like morons all the time - and crucially, they could be trusted to judge the correct speed for themselves - said morons wouldn't need babying.
Sweden is a lot worse for this than the UK in the specific matter of speed limits. Many speed limits are set at a speed in km/h that would be reasonable if interpreted as the same figure in mph. It's not just me, or just a few speed demons, who think this. There are swathes of 30 or 40 km/h limits on through routes in towns and virtually everywhere in rural areas that doesn't have some form of central reservation has a 70 limit. It is entirely normal to be in platoons of traffic doing 50 on the former and 90 or 100 on the latter. There's a wire-separated S2+1 stretch near me with an inexplicable 70 limit where people regularly do 110. This is in a place where speed is regulated by the slowest driver as it's a single lane stretch. Let's be clear about the implications of this: we are talking about the majority of drivers doing up to 60% over the posted limit as a general habit.
Yet Sweden vies with the rest of Scandinavia and the UK for top place in the KSI stats in developed countries. Of course, the government will ascribe this position to the low limits, conveniently forgetting the level of compliance. If they raised most limits on through roads by 20 km/h or even more, it would probably have zip effect on the accident statistics. Could it simply be that absolute speed - as opposed to a specific speed chosen by a specific motorist at a specific time and place - just isn't that important to road safety?
We don't really know the answer to that question, because the groupthink that prevails all over prevents the hypothesis from being tested. But the fact that KSIs on Swedish roads are not sky high despite mindboggling levels of non-compliance with speed limits would suggest that the question is at least worthy of sensible attention.
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Re: Bad speed limits
Meanwhile, if you tried interpreting the km/h limits in Ireland as the same figure in mph, you would just rear-end a tractor!FosseWay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 16:33This. It is surely better to make rules that serve their purpose and are understood by most people most of the time, and then clobber the minority who take the pee even so, than to indulge in woolly thinking, see cause and effect where it doesn't exist and at the same time lose the majority's respect for what you're doing.Helvellyn wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 13:14Said morons shouldn't be driving at all. There's your problem, not people doing 60 mph on a dead straight S2 where you can see for a couple of miles. If you can't really deal with the morons, well, quite frankly I'd rather put up with them than have everyone treated like a moron.Arcuarius wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:47 Wow. This is a can of worms you've opened.
I don't believe there are that many bad speed limits. They're obviously put in place for a reason, though in an ideal world they'd make other changes instead. Perhaps if people didn't rush about like morons all the time - and crucially, they could be trusted to judge the correct speed for themselves - said morons wouldn't need babying.
Sweden is a lot worse for this than the UK in the specific matter of speed limits. Many speed limits are set at a speed in km/h that would be reasonable if interpreted as the same figure in mph. It's not just me, or just a few speed demons, who think this. There are swathes of 30 or 40 km/h limits on through routes in towns and virtually everywhere in rural areas that doesn't have some form of central reservation has a 70 limit. It is entirely normal to be in platoons of traffic doing 50 on the former and 90 or 100 on the latter. There's a wire-separated S2+1 stretch near me with an inexplicable 70 limit where people regularly do 110. This is in a place where speed is regulated by the slowest driver as it's a single lane stretch. Let's be clear about the implications of this: we are talking about the majority of drivers doing up to 60% over the posted limit as a general habit.
Yet Sweden vies with the rest of Scandinavia and the UK for top place in the KSI stats in developed countries. Of course, the government will ascribe this position to the low limits, conveniently forgetting the level of compliance. If they raised most limits on through roads by 20 km/h or even more, it would probably have zip effect on the accident statistics. Could it simply be that absolute speed - as opposed to a specific speed chosen by a specific motorist at a specific time and place - just isn't that important to road safety?
We don't really know the answer to that question, because the groupthink that prevails all over prevents the hypothesis from being tested. But the fact that KSIs on Swedish roads are not sky high despite mindboggling levels of non-compliance with speed limits would suggest that the question is at least worthy of sensible attention.
So here is the bad part:
You can do 80km/h on a narrow one-lane road with grass growing up the middle, the same limit as some perfectly good R-road dual carriageways well capable of 100+km/h.
At least the government has some 100km/h high quality R-roads (R132) and some 120km/h HQDCs (N25 Cork to Midleton, N1 north of Dundalk).
Wonder what would happen if said 2+1 road with cable barrier was in UK? (NSL)
it/he/they | aka computerfan0
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