A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

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Barkstar
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by Barkstar »

I know I'm going to regret asking but how do they arrive at a saving of £30million? It's was said by a politician so should be treated as dubious at best and a whopping great fib. It can't be because of some statutory maintenance spend because if that were the case then the motorway system around Great Manchester and Cheshire wouldn't be full of holes because someone would get in a lot of trouble for allowing such a things.
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by Big L »

I wonder if "saving 30 million" actually means "developers will give us 30 million"?
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by Bryn666 »

Big L wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 06:48 I wonder if "saving 30 million" actually means "developers will give us 30 million"?
It's this, yes. They'll have worked out the long term life costs of maintaining the bridges and come up with £30m, so get developers to pay to demolish the bridges and replace with roundabouts or whatever and Bob's your uncle.

The precedent has now been set that motorways are not exempt from being trashed by development at any cost, I'd be looking very carefully at the eastern end of the M65 now...
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by booshank »

Bryn666 wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:08
Big L wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 06:48 I wonder if "saving 30 million" actually means "developers will give us 30 million"?
It's this, yes. They'll have worked out the long term life costs of maintaining the bridges and come up with £30m, so get developers to pay to demolish the bridges and replace with roundabouts or whatever and Bob's your uncle.

The precedent has now been set that motorways are not exempt from being trashed by development at any cost, I'd be looking very carefully at the eastern end of the M65 now...
Yeah, genius idea - increase demand by adding loads of housing and reduce capacity by riddling the road with roundabouts!
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by Bryn666 »

booshank wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:02
Bryn666 wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:08
Big L wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 06:48 I wonder if "saving 30 million" actually means "developers will give us 30 million"?
It's this, yes. They'll have worked out the long term life costs of maintaining the bridges and come up with £30m, so get developers to pay to demolish the bridges and replace with roundabouts or whatever and Bob's your uncle.

The precedent has now been set that motorways are not exempt from being trashed by development at any cost, I'd be looking very carefully at the eastern end of the M65 now...
Yeah, genius idea - increase demand by adding loads of housing and reduce capacity by riddling the road with roundabouts!
Welcome to private development 101, and this is what the government wants. It's all down to who funds and lobbies.
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by Pendlemac »

Bryn666 wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:08
Big L wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 06:48 I wonder if "saving 30 million" actually means "developers will give us 30 million"?
It's this, yes. They'll have worked out the long term life costs of maintaining the bridges and come up with £30m, so get developers to pay to demolish the bridges and replace with roundabouts or whatever and Bob's your uncle.

The precedent has now been set that motorways are not exempt from being trashed by development at any cost, I'd be looking very carefully at the eastern end of the M65 now...
Actually the money is coming from the DfT ( £9.245m ) and the savings are over THIRTY years!

As usual these days, the reporter obviously selectively quoted from the press release to get exactly the sort of reaction that happened on here and make the 'story' more important so they get credit for increasing the number of people who visit the 'news' organisations website. :censored:

To see the real story go to the press release at https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/news/deta ... =PR21/0275
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by Bryn666 »

Pendlemac wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:40
Bryn666 wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:08
Big L wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 06:48 I wonder if "saving 30 million" actually means "developers will give us 30 million"?
It's this, yes. They'll have worked out the long term life costs of maintaining the bridges and come up with £30m, so get developers to pay to demolish the bridges and replace with roundabouts or whatever and Bob's your uncle.

The precedent has now been set that motorways are not exempt from being trashed by development at any cost, I'd be looking very carefully at the eastern end of the M65 now...
Actually the money is coming from the DfT ( £9.245m ) and the savings are over THIRTY years!

As usual these days, the reporter obviously selectively quoted from the press release to get exactly the sort of reaction that happened on here and make the 'story' more important so they get credit for increasing the number of people who visit the 'news' organisations website. :censored:

To see the real story go to the press release at https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/news/deta ... =PR21/0275
It's no secret there are plans to develop the A601(M) corridor though. The whole reason for the de-specialisation order in the first place is much more about this than it is saving money. It costs the exact same to maintain a bridge.
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by Chris56000 »

. . .So now we have an even more grotesque mess here!

Large blue "M6" Chopsticks signs and equally large E.O.M. signs have been extremely crudely erected on large single posts at the start and ends of the on–slips down to and the off–slips up from the M6 respectively, plus another large E.O.M. sign erected on another single post where the A601(M) terminates on the J35 roundabout, so now we have three whacking great signs at the end of the M6 off–slips and the A601(M) telling us the Motorway regulations end at the Junction 35 roundabout above the M6 itself, but you are still greeted with miniature Chopsticks with "No Pedestrians" round the roundabout itself, so what twit didn't arrange for the miniature Chopsticks signs all round the roundabout to be removed then at the same time new signs were erected on the roundabout ends of the slip roads?!

It is unclear exactly when this took place as I looked at it on G.S.V.!

Somebody needs to remind L.C.C. that the "M6 Chopsticks" and the "E.O.M." signs start and end Motorway Regulations from the points at which they're erected, so there should be no contradictory old signing left there!

The "OS Maps" 1:50,000 layer now marks J35 roundabout and the Over Kellet link in brown, which according to the latest signing mess here, is now correct!

Chris Williams

PS! There is now a 40 mph speed limit on the J35 roundabout, and since there's no repeaters, I presume that means all the way down the A601(M) to the A6 roundabout and probably all the way to Carnforth as well!
Last edited by Chris56000 on Tue Jun 28, 2022 00:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by Bryn666 »

Chris56000 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 23:53 . . .So now we have an even more grotesque mess here!

Large blue "M6" Chopsticks signs and equally large E.O.M. signs have been extremely crudely erected on large single posts at the start and ends of the on–slips down to and the off–slips up from the M6 respectively, plus another large E.O.M. sign erected on another single post where the A601(M) terminates on the J35 roundabout, so now we have three whacking great signs at the end of the M6 off–slips and the A601(M) telling us the Motorway regulations end at the Junction 35 roundabout above the M6 itself, but you are still greeted with miniature Chopsticks with "No Pedestrians" round the roundabout itself, so what twit didn't arrange for the miniature Chopsticks signs all round the roundabout to be removed then at the same time new signs were erected on the roundabout ends of the slip roads?!

It is unclear exactly when this took place as I looked at it on G.S.V.!

Somebody needs to remind L.C.C. that the "M6 Chopsticks" and the "E.O.M." signs start and end Motorway Regulations from the points at which they're erected, so there should be no contradictory old signing left there!

The "OS Maps" 1:50,000 layer now marks J35 roundabout and the Over Kellet link in brown, which according to the latest signing mess here, is now correct!

Chris Williams

PS! There is now a 40 mph speed limit on the J35 roundabout!
It is an absolute mess - but probably short lived...
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by A303Chris »

A601(M).png
A601(M).png (117.06 KiB) Viewed 9022 times
What a mess it now is.
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by Hdeng16 »

A303Chris wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 14:11 A601(M).png

What a mess it now is.
I hope any 'U-Turning' learner drivers have good lane discipline around that western side of the roundabout ;)
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by Bryn666 »

One good thing I'll give LCC is that even though they've done a Carrington Spur and kept the most of the same restrictions as a motorway, they at least built a separate NMU route to the Porsche dealership instead of making it a car dependent develop...
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by solocle »

Bryn666 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 15:09 One good thing I'll give LCC is that even though they've done a Carrington Spur and kept the most of the same restrictions as a motorway, they at least built a separate NMU route to the Porsche dealership instead of making it a car dependent develop...
Although it does look to me like there's no signs of the restrictions if you go in to the Porsche dealership on the NMU route, but out via the main entrance... :twisted:

I did actually object to them making the restrictions permanent, given the chat about potentially reclassifying the other section of A601(M). They seemed to think that a road leading to no legal options except around the roundabout was a problem. Personally, it would be worthwhile just to take a ride down such an unusual former motorway.

Meanwhile Leicestershire are fine allowing NMUs on just such a roundabout, the A5460. https://www.google.com/maps/@52.6004952 ... 384!8i8192
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by Mapper89062 »

While I usually don't like having little bits of the motorway network downgraded, this spur is different to most in that it is actually a viable through route from one non-motorway route at one end to another at the other one, and I would have thought allowing tractors to bypass the S1 traffic-light controlled bridge on the B6254 in Carnforth might not be a bad thing.
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by solocle »

Mapper89062 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 18:27 While I usually don't like having little bits of the motorway network downgraded, this spur is different to most in that it is actually a viable through route from one non-motorway route at one end to another at the other one, and I would have thought allowing tractors to bypass the S1 traffic-light controlled bridge on the B6254 in Carnforth might not be a bad thing.
Unfortunately the bridges pose a bit of a problem, otherwise you could make the hard shoulder into a reasonable NMU route. As it is it would still be feasible, but you'd need to realign the carriageway to use the space in the central reservation.
capture5.jpg
Even with having to join the main lane at that point, it still would be preferable to a typical dual carriageway. At 10K AADF it's not exactly busy, either.
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by Ishtaria1980 »

ravenbluemoon wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 21:47 If anyone gets hold of the chopsticks signs, legitimately or otherwise, can you put them in their rightful place... Derby! It'd get the locals talking if you upgraded Lara Croft Way to motorway overnight :D
Ha love it! Most people already treat St. Alkmunds Way like a motorway anyway :roll:

Also quite interestingly, at no point whatsoever on the entire inner ring road or anywhere other than on maps, is there one single reference to it as the A601.
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

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Ishtaria1980 wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 23:21
ravenbluemoon wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 21:47 If anyone gets hold of the chopsticks signs, legitimately or otherwise, can you put them in their rightful place... Derby! It'd get the locals talking if you upgraded Lara Croft Way to motorway overnight :D
Ha love it! Most people already treat St. Alkmunds Way like a motorway anyway :roll:

Also quite interestingly, at no point whatsoever on the entire inner ring road or anywhere other than on maps, is there one single reference to it as the A601.
Ring roads have often been (un)signed like that, with the route confirmation signs headed "Ring Road". I'm not sure (Steven can confirm) that there's a single sign on the Wolverhampton RR that says A4150, for instance.
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by Chris5156 »

Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 08:57
Ishtaria1980 wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 23:21Also quite interestingly, at no point whatsoever on the entire inner ring road or anywhere other than on maps, is there one single reference to it as the A601.
Ring roads have often been (un)signed like that, with the route confirmation signs headed "Ring Road". I'm not sure (Steven can confirm) that there's a single sign on the Wolverhampton RR that says A4150, for instance.
It certainly used to be the case that this was the only sign that showed the Coventry Ring Road's number.
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by Steven »

Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 08:57 I'm not sure (Steven can confirm) that there's a single sign on the Wolverhampton RR that says A4150, for instance.
There isn't - there is one outside Molineux that uses (A4150) but not on the IRR itself.
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by Bryn666 »

Chris5156 wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 09:02
Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 08:57
Ishtaria1980 wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 23:21Also quite interestingly, at no point whatsoever on the entire inner ring road or anywhere other than on maps, is there one single reference to it as the A601.
Ring roads have often been (un)signed like that, with the route confirmation signs headed "Ring Road". I'm not sure (Steven can confirm) that there's a single sign on the Wolverhampton RR that says A4150, for instance.
It certainly used to be the case that this was the only sign that showed the Coventry Ring Road's number.
The Cov RR is in the middle of a vast resigning project, but the new signs all simply say "Ring road". The "all other traffic" signing has been largely consigned to the bin and they've gone back to more conventional signs along the lines of the original 1970s ones.
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