A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

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Micro The Maniac
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by Micro The Maniac »

milly wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 21:41 The former A601(M) link from the M6 roundabout to the B6254 has been renamed the B6601, it is only signed from the M6 roundabout on very small black on white signage.
Do we have a new candidate for "The xx is the only road that..."

The A601(M) is the only motorway downgraded to a B road ? :(
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Bryn666
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by Bryn666 »

Micro The Maniac wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 08:15
milly wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 21:41 The former A601(M) link from the M6 roundabout to the B6254 has been renamed the B6601, it is only signed from the M6 roundabout on very small black on white signage.
Do we have a new candidate for "The xx is the only road that..."

The A601(M) is the only motorway downgraded to a B road ? :(
The signage is a complete mess, at the moment it's a spontaneous motorway but nothing tells you this. The former motorway length has the same restrictions as the A6144(M) now has so what's the point?

Also you can't legally walk or cycle to the Porsche dealers, so nice bit of discriminatory design there. Anyone fancy an Equalities Act test case?
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c2R
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by c2R »

Bryn666 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 11:15
The signage is a complete mess, at the moment it's a spontaneous motorway but nothing tells you this. The former motorway length has the same restrictions as the A6144(M) now has so what's the point?

Also you can't legally walk or cycle to the Porsche dealers, so nice bit of discriminatory design there. Anyone fancy an Equalities Act test case?
I've not been up there since the Porsche dealers has opened, but given there was already access to the land from here, surely they could quite easily put a foot/cycle access in here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Carnf ... d-2.768112

As for the signage, it was always a bit of a mess - who can forget this:

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.1283638 ... 312!8i6656

And then they must have had some spare lattix when they replaced it with this beauty, but didn't also replace the M6 flag which was showing its age...
https://www.google.com/maps/@54.1283585 ... 384!8i8192
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by Bryn666 »

c2R wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 11:23
Bryn666 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 11:15
The signage is a complete mess, at the moment it's a spontaneous motorway but nothing tells you this. The former motorway length has the same restrictions as the A6144(M) now has so what's the point?

Also you can't legally walk or cycle to the Porsche dealers, so nice bit of discriminatory design there. Anyone fancy an Equalities Act test case?
I've not been up there since the Porsche dealers has opened, but given there was already access to the land from here, surely they could quite easily put a foot/cycle access in here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Carnf ... d-2.768112

As for the signage, it was always a bit of a mess - who can forget this:

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.1283638 ... 312!8i6656

And then they must have had some spare lattix when they replaced it with this beauty, but didn't also replace the M6 flag which was showing its age...
https://www.google.com/maps/@54.1283585 ... 384!8i8192
They replaced the left hand flag, it's now a tiny B6601 sign on the same giant lattix. The ancient M6 sign still hasn't been touched.

The blue ADS for the roundabout is still standing too. And you know LCC won't have bothered to tell HE what to replace their signs with so we have another DN7 in the making.

I am actually furious that this level of incompetence is so endemic in the industry. Time to start making this a political problem.
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solocle
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by solocle »

c2R wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 11:23
Bryn666 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 11:15
The signage is a complete mess, at the moment it's a spontaneous motorway but nothing tells you this. The former motorway length has the same restrictions as the A6144(M) now has so what's the point?

Also you can't legally walk or cycle to the Porsche dealers, so nice bit of discriminatory design there. Anyone fancy an Equalities Act test case?
I've not been up there since the Porsche dealers has opened, but given there was already access to the land from here, surely they could quite easily put a foot/cycle access in here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Carnf ... d-2.768112

As for the signage, it was always a bit of a mess - who can forget this:

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.1283638 ... 312!8i6656

And then they must have had some spare lattix when they replaced it with this beauty, but didn't also replace the M6 flag which was showing its age...
https://www.google.com/maps/@54.1283585 ... 384!8i8192
The prohibition is tied to the temporary speed limit order, and justified on the basis of allowing the completion of development - Lancashire TRO. N.b. it has been amended to extend that date to 31st October 2021.
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by Bryn666 »

solocle wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 12:07
c2R wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 11:23
Bryn666 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 11:15
The signage is a complete mess, at the moment it's a spontaneous motorway but nothing tells you this. The former motorway length has the same restrictions as the A6144(M) now has so what's the point?

Also you can't legally walk or cycle to the Porsche dealers, so nice bit of discriminatory design there. Anyone fancy an Equalities Act test case?
I've not been up there since the Porsche dealers has opened, but given there was already access to the land from here, surely they could quite easily put a foot/cycle access in here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Carnf ... d-2.768112

As for the signage, it was always a bit of a mess - who can forget this:

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.1283638 ... 312!8i6656

And then they must have had some spare lattix when they replaced it with this beauty, but didn't also replace the M6 flag which was showing its age...
https://www.google.com/maps/@54.1283585 ... 384!8i8192
The prohibition is tied to the temporary speed limit order, and justified on the basis of allowing the completion of development - Lancashire TRO. N.b. it has been amended to extend that date to 31st October 2021.
Ah, I know Peter very well, I might have to send him a query about what the hell is going on because he is a signing expert and he'll be intrigued to see what nonsense is going up on his network.
Bryn
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by Chris56000 »

Hi!

More to the point, what wag dreamed up "B6601?"

What was wrong with simply carrying it on as B6254 and leaving the old restricted length to Carnforth town centre as unclassified?

So now we've got ½ mile or so of "B6601" tagged on at right–angles to the existing road that is B6254 towards Over Kellet/Kirkby Lonsdale and unclassified towards Carnforth!

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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by Sunil_of_Yoxley »

Does the remaining A601(M), the dual section, "need" to be a motorway?

I mean you've got the A6 to the north, the B6254 to the south, so the road links two non-M-ways via a roundabout.
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by c2R »

Sunil_of_Yoxley wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 22:45 Does the remaining A601(M), the dual section, "need" to be a motorway?

I mean you've got the A6 to the north, the B6254 to the south, so the road links two non-M-ways via a roundabout.
There's a recent consultation on what to do with it to support the masses of development in the area.
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by Micro The Maniac »

Sunil_of_Yoxley wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 22:45 Does the remaining A601(M), the dual section, "need" to be a motorway?
After all these years, I still don't get the 601 bit...

If it is retained as a motorway, it would make *much* more sense to be A6(M) anyway...?!
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by KeithW »

Micro The Maniac wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 07:41
Sunil_of_Yoxley wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 22:45 Does the remaining A601(M), the dual section, "need" to be a motorway?
After all these years, I still don't get the 601 bit...

If it is retained as a motorway, it would make *much* more sense to be A6(M) anyway...?!
The handling of motorway spurs has never been very consistent but in the case of the A601(M) is understandable. In 1960 the M6 Lancaster bypass had its temporary terminus on the A6 which is where the A601(M) now terminates.
https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/maps/ind ... 3,-2.75288,

see also
https://www.roads.org.uk/motorway/a601m

Rather odder was the A66(M) given that at the time it opened in 1965 the A66 terminated at Scotch Corner on the A1 while the A1(M) Darlington bypass didnt start until Barton. Clearly there was an aspiration to upgrade the A1 as far as the Darlington bypass but that process was not completed until well over 30 years later .

In contrast I will give you the M11 spur onto the A11 at Stump Cross. There the M11 had its temporary terminus on what was then the A130 now the A1301. The spur is under motorway regulations but has no separate number.
https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/maps/ind ... 58,0.06665,
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by Bryn666 »

Micro The Maniac wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 07:41
Sunil_of_Yoxley wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 22:45 Does the remaining A601(M), the dual section, "need" to be a motorway?
After all these years, I still don't get the 601 bit...

If it is retained as a motorway, it would make *much* more sense to be A6(M) anyway...?!
It's just an accident of history, there's no logic behind the renumbering of a previously unnumbered spur to A601(M) when the southern bit was built in 1986. Your bafflement is quite justified.
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Re: A601(M) Carnforth Link Road Downgrading

Post by Chris Bertram »

Bryn666 wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 10:26
Micro The Maniac wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 07:41
Sunil_of_Yoxley wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 22:45 Does the remaining A601(M), the dual section, "need" to be a motorway?
After all these years, I still don't get the 601 bit...

If it is retained as a motorway, it would make *much* more sense to be A6(M) anyway...?!
It's just an accident of history, there's no logic behind the renumbering of a previously unnumbered spur to A601(M) when the southern bit was built in 1986. Your bafflement is quite justified.
Particularly when it does not connect to the non-motorway A601 at any point. As we have noted here on many, many occasions.
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From the SABRE Wiki: A601 :

The A601 forms the Derby Inner Ring road, and as such loops tightly around the centre of Derby. It is composed of three distinct sections: a 1960s/70s grade separated dual carriageway (St Alkmund's Way), an earlier stretch of at-grade dual carriageway (Traffic Street and Bradshaw Way) and a stretch of modern dual and single carriageway, built or improved in the 2000s

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