traffic-light-man wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 14:17
Peter Freeman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:58I find this strange. 'Give Way' means give way - why does it require reinforcement? It's inefficient usage of available time and space if these signals can be red when the road being entered is actually clear.
In most scenarios, the left turn would be signalled with a green arrow. A green arrow in the UK generally indicates an un-conflicted movement (there are exceptions, mainly installed under older guidance - or lack thereof), so there's the potential for drivers to disregard the follow-up give way line.
Ah, I understand the point you were making now: the possibility that a driver would assume the green signal over-rules the subsequent give-way line, or he might not notice that line. Especially if that green was an arrow. By the way, here in AU too a green arrow indicates a movement that's unconflicted by either vehicles or pedestrians.
In Ireland, for instance, it's usually replaced with a flashing amber arrow. I believe one Australian response would be to omit the green aspect altogether (similar is permitted in The Netherlands and Germany, to the best of my knowledge), which isn't allowed in the UK.
Yes, omission of the green aspect occurs, quite rarely, in special circumstances. It's always accompanied by a prominent red sign worded "stop here on red signal". I found this sign rather amusing when I first encountered it and before understanding the reason for it.
traffic-light-man wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 14:17
Rambo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 13:01
traffic-light-man wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:04
Completely unrelated to the point of a conversion, one thing they do both happen to employ (
Warrington and
St Helens) is the use of full-greens on the left turns that require a give way, presumably to re-enforce the give way line.
Are they not just for the pedestrian crossing? I'm familiar with the junction but not the signaling set up..
As far as I'm aware, at both junctions, the left turns are red if the the traffic from the right has a signalled right-of-way, but green if there a) isn't a conflict, or b) the traffic from the right is from the opposing right turners who are gap-accepting (if that makes sense) which is where the give way comes in to play.
In AU we deal with left turn slips differently, using one out of these two scenarios:
1. Single lane (the most common) left turn slips
usually have simply a zebra crossing, placed quite early along the slip, followed by a give-way line at the new road entry. There are no signals. This scenario is not allowed where the slip has >1 lane.
2. Multi-lane slips, and
some single-lane ones, have a three-aspect signal placed
immediately before a pedestrian crossing (not zebra), which is itself quite far along the slip. While it may respond to a pedestrian push-button, this signal is synchronised with the main signals, and so vehicles proceeding over the crossing when the signal is green encounter no other line, either give-way or stop, when emerging onto the new road. I think the green is round, not an arrow - I can't quite remember - I'll take notice next time I'm out! But what it is permitting is quite clear.
At this location you can see both scenarios (zebra and signalised pedestrian crossings) -
https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Fe ... 45.2331758
(A third, rare, scenario is the one with green aspect omitted. It's a minor variation of scenario 2, with a give-way line
following the pedestrian crossing - like your UK examples.)