Fibre Optic Mellors

Discussion about street lighting, road signs, traffic signals - and all other street furniture - goes here.

Moderator: Site Management Team

AlexBr967
Member
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2020 21:08

Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by AlexBr967 »

AlexBr967 wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 01:45 Other than a few replacements I believe (Could be wrong because not really sure what constitutes a mellor) this entire light set and this entire set are mellors and most have the fibre optic arrows. Interesting that the replacement here doesn't have an arrow.
Bad news about these two. They're both due to be replaced over the next few weeks. Interesting that they're both being replaced together but I guess it makes sense they were both fitted at the same time so replaced at the same time.
OliverH
Member
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:52
Location: West Yorkshire

Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by OliverH »

i think these were: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.52652 ... 6?hl=en-GB

they were replaced in 2009; looking at them they didn't look that old.
User avatar
traffic-light-man
Member
Posts: 4728
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 18:45
Location: Liverpool, UK

Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by traffic-light-man »

Stumbled across two sets of pedestrian survivors in North Wales last weekend. I'll have to post in two posts as there's one photo too many for a single post. The first is a set of Page Signals Mellor lanterns fitted with Pilks units, unfortunately the red man lamp had gone on one side and I didn't grab a photo of it on green.

Edited to try and sort out attachments
Attachments
IMG_20220821_200956.jpg
IMG_20220821_201019.jpg
Last edited by traffic-light-man on Sun Aug 28, 2022 14:20, edited 3 times in total.
Simon
User avatar
traffic-light-man
Member
Posts: 4728
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 18:45
Location: Liverpool, UK

Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by traffic-light-man »

And the second set is a set of Plessey lanterns, again with Pilks fibre optic units.
Attachments
IMG_20220821_204704.jpg
IMG_20220821_204722.jpg
Simon
User avatar
L.J.D
Member
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 06:34
Location: W.Yorkshire

Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by L.J.D »

Wow I was really shocked to learn today that they did a fibre optic variant of the MSH signal head! There was some at this junction! Did West Yorkshire have some kind of special deal with microsense ? Because there seemed to be alot of different and unique microsense kit kicking about around West Yorkshire back then.
User avatar
traffic-light-man
Member
Posts: 4728
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 18:45
Location: Liverpool, UK

Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by traffic-light-man »

The fibre optic arrows were all manufactured by third parties, and so could be found in a variety of signal heads, including MSHs. I've actually got a Varitext one which was mounted in an MSH. I've seen Signature ones mounted in MSH heads before as well, though these particular ones are long gone.

With regards to West Yorkshire, it seems as though some of the authorities locked on to Microsense kit early on which meant it was perhaps more prevalent there than in other areas. I'm thinking particularly LED lanterns, where Bradford seemed to be an early adopter in using the LSH, but so were several of the North Wales authorities. I doubt there was any kind of special deal going on, but perhaps the result of a combination of the specifying authority being quite specific about one thing, them perhaps being open to trialing certain things, and Microsense then serving up the equipment to suit.
Simon
Stephen Heathcote
New Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2022 22:30

Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by Stephen Heathcote »

Hehe - Blast from the past! I worked for Varitext in Middlesbrough for around 8 years. I remember overseeing these being made. We used UFO (Universal Fibre Optics) fibre optics on them, sourced from Scotland and the rear covers were spun at a place in Darlington and the face plates punched over the road at ADJ fabrications. Later versions used LEDs, but don't think we manufactured too many of those. We used to do a lot of work for Monitron, Signature Industries, Microsense and Peek Traffic as they were at the time with these. Those pictures bring back some memories!
User avatar
traffic-light-man
Member
Posts: 4728
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 18:45
Location: Liverpool, UK

Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by traffic-light-man »

Stephen Heathcote wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 18:12 Hehe - Blast from the past! I worked for Varitext in Middlesbrough for around 8 years. I remember overseeing these being made. We used UFO (Universal Fibre Optics) fibre optics on them, sourced from Scotland and the rear covers were spun at a place in Darlington and the face plates punched over the road at ADJ fabrications. Later versions used LEDs, but don't think we manufactured too many of those. We used to do a lot of work for Monitron, Signature Industries, Microsense and Peek Traffic as they were at the time with these. Those pictures bring back some memories!
Welcome to SABRE, Stephen, and thanks for sharing your story!

I notice you mention supplying equipment for Signature - did Varitext manufacture fibre optic arrow units for Signature as well? I was under the impression that Signature manufactured their own units (perhaps initially) with the 'large dots', which was as a result of them buying FKI who had originally manufactured the design. In the picture below, the one on the left is marked as a Varitext unit, but the one on the right is marked as Signature.

The other notable thing (for me, anyway) about the Varitext units are the pedestrian ones, or rather lack of them. I've only ever been aware of one set (photos below) which are long gone, and I made a huge assumption that they were in fact Varitext units based only on their similarities to the arrows along with the newish lanterns they were mounted in. Did Varitext make a pedestrian variety, and if so, do you know if they got supplied very often?
Attachments
IMG_20210306_161207.jpg
P6220250.JPG
P6220252.JPG
Simon
AlexBr967
Member
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2020 21:08

Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by AlexBr967 »

Looks like this one might still be there https://goo.gl/maps/5G9XufTgvLLjJGweA
User avatar
traffic-light-man
Member
Posts: 4728
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 18:45
Location: Liverpool, UK

Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by traffic-light-man »

AlexBr967 wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 03:33 Looks like this one might still be there https://goo.gl/maps/5G9XufTgvLLjJGweA
That set is still going, as are the ones two junctions to the east at Park Lane. I believe these are covered under the Sefton maintenance contract, but they're a NH asset so I'm not sure if these will escape the LCR's LEDification programme or not.
Simon
User avatar
L.J.D
Member
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 06:34
Location: W.Yorkshire

Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by L.J.D »

traffic-light-man wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 07:44 That set is still going, as are the ones two junctions to the east at Park Lane. I believe these are covered under the Sefton maintenance contract, but they're a NH asset so I'm not sure if these will escape the LCR's LEDification programme or not.
I've often wondered this. Are signals on motorway junctions and NH roads maintained and kept by NH or local authority? What got me wondering was near here M62 J31 half of the junction got refurbished but the other half has been left and I looked on Wakefield Councils highway maintenance appendix 22/23 and the other older half is on there for refurbishment. Odd how motorway junctions are refurbished in that way because you often end up with one side of a junction having a different brand of signal equipment to the other.
User avatar
ReissOmari
Member
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 21:51
Location: Birmingham

Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by ReissOmari »

Anybody know if these ares are still present? Quite a few things to take away from this set up of course! Looks like all other signals on both ends were upgraded to microsense well over a decade ago, but these were left. Even stranger observation is, they seem totally useless as the private property doesn't appear to be in use and has overgrown vegetation at what I assume was the entrance.
ReissOmari..
User avatar
traffic-light-man
Member
Posts: 4728
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 18:45
Location: Liverpool, UK

Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by traffic-light-man »

L.J.D wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:29 I've often wondered this. Are signals on motorway junctions and NH roads maintained and kept by NH or local authority? What got me wondering was near here M62 J31 half of the junction got refurbished but the other half has been left and I looked on Wakefield Councils highway maintenance appendix 22/23 and the other older half is on there for refurbishment. Odd how motorway junctions are refurbished in that way because you often end up with one side of a junction having a different brand of signal equipment to the other.
Someone else with experience of NH might be better placed to answer that, but I believe it's a case of which authority promoted and installed them, which one agrees to operate them and which one wants them there in the first place.

I think it's a bit more clear cut with motorway roundabout type junctions as generally speaking, either the NH wants the signals there to try and manage queues on offslips to prevent them from fouling the mainline, or the local authority wants them there to try and control the whole junction including the arms to the local network. That obviously won't be the case everywhere, but I think it's a good generalisation and it seems to fit with what I've seen.

Sites where local roads and trunk roads meet at grade are a bit of a mixed bag from what I can tell, though I think these days they're generally NH assets even if they're maintained by the LA. In the past, when there were a lot more trunk roads and LAs often worked as agents for the trunk road operators, the situation was probably less clear cut - that's just an assumption, though!

With regards to roundabouts, 'unbalanced' kit can sometimes be in relation to the controller, though it's not a situation that's particularly common. It's fairly common for a larger roundabout to use two or more controllers, and so sometimes they'll be treated as separate sites in their own right. M61 J8 is another example of this, where one side has a PTC-1 with ELV Elites, and the other side still has a TRX with a mixed bag of heads, both halogen and LED. M58/M6 at Orrell is another similar case where one roundabout is Peek and the other Siemens.
Simon
Stephen Heathcote
New Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2022 22:30

Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by Stephen Heathcote »

traffic-light-man wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 19:09
Stephen Heathcote wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 18:12 Hehe - Blast from the past! I worked for Varitext in Middlesbrough for around 8 years. I remember overseeing these being made. We used UFO (Universal Fibre Optics) fibre optics on them, sourced from Scotland and the rear covers were spun at a place in Darlington and the face plates punched over the road at ADJ fabrications. Later versions used LEDs, but don't think we manufactured too many of those. We used to do a lot of work for Monitron, Signature Industries, Microsense and Peek Traffic as they were at the time with these. Those pictures bring back some memories!
Welcome to SABRE, Stephen, and thanks for sharing your story!

I notice you mention supplying equipment for Signature - did Varitext manufacture fibre optic arrow units for Signature as well? I was under the impression that Signature manufactured their own units (perhaps initially) with the 'large dots', which was as a result of them buying FKI who had originally manufactured the design. In the picture below, the one on the left is marked as a Varitext unit, but the one on the right is marked as Signature.

The other notable thing (for me, anyway) about the Varitext units are the pedestrian ones, or rather lack of them. I've only ever been aware of one set (photos below) which are long gone, and I made a huge assumption that they were in fact Varitext units based only on their similarities to the arrows along with the newish lanterns they were mounted in. Did Varitext make a pedestrian variety, and if so, do you know if they got supplied very often?
Yes, i recognise the broken green arrow and we also made some pedestrians too. We used to provide signature with quite a few, but what they went into i'm not sure. We used to provide signature with bus stop displays too. I'll try to see if i have any technical info on the arrows!
Stephen Heathcote
New Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2022 22:30

Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by Stephen Heathcote »

traffic-light-man wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 15:51
L.J.D wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:29 I've often wondered this. Are signals on motorway junctions and NH roads maintained and kept by NH or local authority? What got me wondering was near here M62 J31 half of the junction got refurbished but the other half has been left and I looked on Wakefield Councils highway maintenance appendix 22/23 and the other older half is on there for refurbishment. Odd how motorway junctions are refurbished in that way because you often end up with one side of a junction having a different brand of signal equipment to the other.
Someone else with experience of NH might be better placed to answer that, but I believe it's a case of which authority promoted and installed them, which one agrees to operate them and which one wants them there in the first place.

I think it's a bit more clear cut with motorway roundabout type junctions as generally speaking, either the NH wants the signals there to try and manage queues on offslips to prevent them from fouling the mainline, or the local authority wants them there to try and control the whole junction including the arms to the local network. That obviously won't be the case everywhere, but I think it's a good generalisation and it seems to fit with what I've seen.

Sites where local roads and trunk roads meet at grade are a bit of a mixed bag from what I can tell, though I think these days they're generally NH assets even if they're maintained by the LA. In the past, when there were a lot more trunk roads and LAs often worked as agents for the trunk road operators, the situation was probably less clear cut - that's just an assumption, though!

With regards to roundabouts, 'unbalanced' kit can sometimes be in relation to the controller, though it's not a situation that's particularly common. It's fairly common for a larger roundabout to use two or more controllers, and so sometimes they'll be treated as separate sites in their own right. M61 J8 is another example of this, where one side has a PTC-1 with ELV Elites, and the other side still has a TRX with a mixed bag of heads, both halogen and LED. M58/M6 at Orrell is another similar case where one roundabout is Peek and the other Siemens.

Generally, National Highways may install signals at junctions as part of a scheme to interface with a motorway, but they don't them maintain them, they are maintained by the local authority. The only signals that National Highways maintain are Ramp Metering signals.
User avatar
traffic-light-man
Member
Posts: 4728
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 18:45
Location: Liverpool, UK

Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by traffic-light-man »

Stephen Heathcote wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 18:20Yes, i recognise the broken green arrow and we also made some pedestrians too. We used to provide signature with quite a few, but what they went into i'm not sure. We used to provide signature with bus stop displays too. I'll try to see if i have any technical info on the arrows!
Any technical info would be really good to see if you do have any. It's something I haven't been able to track down, but it's always been intriguing.
Stephen Heathcote wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 18:23Generally, National Highways may install signals at junctions as part of a scheme to interface with a motorway, but they don't them maintain them, they are maintained by the local authority. The only signals that National Highways maintain are Ramp Metering signals.
Certainly around the north west, there are plenty of National Highways maintained signal sites, and Swarco is the current contractor. There are 14 sites on the A585 between the M55 and Fleetwood alone that are NH maintained, including the crossing on Dock Street in Fleetwood itself and a Cattle crossing.

Other notable NH maintained sites are a bit more isolated but include Simister Island, A56/A680, M58/M6 and Orrell Link/A577, M6/A580 Haydock Island, amongst others.
Simon
User avatar
Chris5156
Deputy Treasurer
Posts: 16908
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2001 21:50
Location: Hampshire
Contact:

Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by Chris5156 »

traffic-light-man wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 14:11
Stephen Heathcote wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 18:23Generally, National Highways may install signals at junctions as part of a scheme to interface with a motorway, but they don't them maintain them, they are maintained by the local authority. The only signals that National Highways maintain are Ramp Metering signals.
Certainly around the north west, there are plenty of National Highways maintained signal sites, and Swarco is the current contractor. There are 14 sites on the A585 between the M55 and Fleetwood alone that are NH maintained, including the crossing on Dock Street in Fleetwood itself and a Cattle crossing.

Other notable NH maintained sites are a bit more isolated but include Simister Island, A56/A680, M58/M6 and Orrell Link/A577, M6/A580 Haydock Island, amongst others.
The above is true on NH-maintained motorways, but on their non-motorway routes there are plenty of signals, as you say. Outside the North West, there are lots on the A27, for example.
User avatar
Arran
Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri May 05, 2023 14:46

Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by Arran »

This set surprised me recently still sporting Plessy mellors whilst most around the area have been upgraded with Telent LED signals

There are also These on Princess Elizabeth way which are later Siemens units

And These on the A46

all as of recently are still in-situ
User avatar
traffic-light-man
Member
Posts: 4728
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 18:45
Location: Liverpool, UK

Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by traffic-light-man »

Arran wrote: Fri May 05, 2023 15:54 This set surprised me recently still sporting Plessy mellors whilst most around the area have been upgraded with Telent LED signals

There are also These on Princess Elizabeth way which are later Siemens units

And These on the A46

all as of recently are still in-situ
Welcome to SABRE!

There's a few other Mellor-dedicated threads running that might be of interest - this one is mainly focussing on Fibre Optic aspects, of which there's a great example in your first link.

There's End of the road for Mellors and this one about Mellor-only junctions that still survive.
Simon
Post Reply