Most important non-trunk road?

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fras
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Re: Most important non-trunk road?

Post by fras »

Sorry to seem thick and stupid, but what defines a "trunk road" these days ? Is it just those in the charge of Highways England or is there another defining value ?
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Re: Most important non-trunk road?

Post by ForestChav »

fras wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 22:52 Sorry to seem thick and stupid, but what defines a "trunk road" these days ? Is it just those in the charge of Highways England or is there another defining value ?
It is still that :)
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Re: Most important non-trunk road?

Post by Piatkow »

fras wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 22:52 Sorry to seem thick and stupid, but what defines a "trunk road" these days ? Is it just those in the charge of Highways England or is there another defining value ?
Most people away from this site probably believe that it is any road with green signage
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Re: Most important non-trunk road?

Post by jabbaboy »

Either of these for the North East I'd say.

A66 from Teesport to the A19
A690 from A1(M) to the A19
A172/A1043/A171 from the A174 to Scarborough
A1231 from the A1 to the A19
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Re: Most important non-trunk road?

Post by matt-thepie »

Piatkow wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 23:00
fras wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 22:52 Sorry to seem thick and stupid, but what defines a "trunk road" these days ? Is it just those in the charge of Highways England or is there another defining value ?
Most people away from this site probably believe that it is any road with green signage
In Scotland this is now (mostly) true.

@fras there are still four constituent countries in this union... ;)
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Re: Most important non-trunk road?

Post by Nwallace »

Uncle Buck wrote:A39 in Cornwall? A811, A977/A91, and A697?

EDIT: or the A350?
The A91 is really just a link into St Andrews from Cupar and Stirling from the hill foots.
The A977 is the road to Glasgow from the Fife connected bits of the M90

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Re: Most important non-trunk road?

Post by Uncle Buck »

Nwallace wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 23:47
Uncle Buck wrote:A39 in Cornwall? A811, A977/A91, and A697?

EDIT: or the A350?
The A91 is really just a link into St Andrews from Cupar and Stirling from the hill foots.
The A977 is the road to Glasgow from the Fife connected bits of the M90

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Sorry I was thinking the A977 from Kincardine to Kinross and the A91 from Milnathort to St. Andrews, taken as one route. I think this is quite a significant road as the link from Glasgow and points south to that section of Fife as well as an alternative direct route to Dundee.
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Re: Most important non-trunk road?

Post by rhyds »

Wales seems to have kept all of its major/important routes primary/trunk, however there are a few sections that can be considered vital links.

The first is the A4232 Link road south of the A48, connecting Bae Caerdydd / Cardiff Bay to the trunk network and a vital link for the city.

As for Abertawe / Swansea, the city is a bit of an oddity in only having the M4 as a primary/trunk route, with the rest of the city's network all being nonprimary.

As for the West, the most important non trunk route is probably the A486 from Synod Inn towards Caerfyrddin / Carmarthen, which was massively improved with EU objective 1 grant money.

As for the North, for some reason towns like Dinbych/Denbigh aren't connected to the trunk network, so various routes such as the A541/A525 have to make some pretty important connections in the region.
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Re: Most important non-trunk road?

Post by KeithW »

jabbaboy wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 23:10 Either of these for the North East I'd say.

A66 from Teesport to the A19
A690 from A1(M) to the A19
A172/A1043/A171 from the A174 to Scarborough
A1231 from the A1 to the A19
The A66 from Middlesbrough to the A19 and on to Darlington and the A66(M) is already trunk, while I agree that it would make sense for it to be extended to Teesport the reality is that the section from Middlesbrough to Teesport is already being improved with money from the Government provided to the Tees Valley Combined authority as part of the plant to establish a Freeport on the old steelworks site which is now officially called Teesworks. Its likely that the rest of the A66 into that site will be trunked.
https://www.teesworks.co.uk/
https://www.teesworks.co.uk/the-development/site-map

The A690 between the A19 and A1 is a major road and a pretty good one.

I live in Marton-In-Cleveland just 400m from the A172. Its certainly busy but its mainly a commuter road as far as the A1043. It stopped being a major route when the A19 was rerouted over the Tees Viaduct. That said it has an AADF of 22k along what is an essence a standard D2 residential road. There was a plan to build an east Middlesbrough bypass, the stub of which is there but that has now been scuppered by Redcar and Cleveland Council allowing houses to be built on the southern end of the planned route.
Stub of A172 East Middlesbrough Bypass. From the end of it the route would have followed Ormesby Beck running alongside the railway line to the roundabout at the junction of the A1043 and A171
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.56757 ... 8192?hl=en

A172 in Marton
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.53068 ... 8192?hl=en

New housing blocking East Middlesbrough bypass route.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.53312 ... 6656?hl=en

This will of course make the traffic problems on the A172 and A171 even worse. That said this is the first time since the 1970's that the prospects for Teesside have looked so promising so we will live with it.
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Re: Most important non-trunk road?

Post by Herned »

Piatkow wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 23:00 Most people away from this site probably believe that it is any road with green signage
And rightly so! What is the point of having separate categories of trunk and primary? Either a road is important or it isn't
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Re: Most important non-trunk road?

Post by Steven »

Herned wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 09:31
Piatkow wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 23:00 Most people away from this site probably believe that it is any road with green signage
And rightly so! What is the point of having separate categories of trunk and primary? Either a road is important or it isn't
They are two entirely different concepts in separate Venn diagrams.

One is about who manages and pays for the road. The other is about the recommended route between places of traffic importance.


Trunk road
Primary Route
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From the SABRE Wiki: Trunk road :


A Trunk road (or national road in the Republic of Ireland) is a road maintained by a national government body – as distinct from the great majority of roads, which are maintained by local Highway Authorities. Trunk roads are generally, therefore, the most important roads nationally; for example, most (though not all) British motorways are trunk roads.

An individually numbered road may be a trunk road for all, part, or none of its

... Read More
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KeithW
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Re: Most important non-trunk road?

Post by KeithW »

Herned wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 09:31
Piatkow wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 23:00 Most people away from this site probably believe that it is any road with green signage
And rightly so! What is the point of having separate categories of trunk and primary? Either a road is important or it isn't
A trunk road is maintained by central government while other roads , including those that are primary are maintained by the local authority. Central governments may choose to give grants to local authorities for repairs, potholes after a severe winter is one example. Some of that can and will be spent on primary, secondary and even unclassified roads.

A trunk road is quite simply a road deemed to be of national or strategic importance. The distinction grew up because major roads such as the A1 would end up being maintained by tiny settlements such as Wetherby or Boroughbridge who didnt have the money.
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Re: Most important non-trunk road?

Post by jackal »

Chris56000 wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 19:49 Hi!

A299 Thanet Way?

The dualling of this by Kent County Council was certainly a very large and ambitious scheme for a local authority, mostly grade–separated apart from at its eastern end from St. Nicholas–At–Wade onwards to Ramsgate, with one dual–carriageway and one single–carriageway tunnel!
The 90s grade separated section alone is about 17 miles long. It's pretty mind blowing that the A299 apparently wasn't trunk even prior to the 1998 review but still got such a massive upgrade.

The SC tunnel opened soon after, in 2000, and the section between Minster and Lord of the Manor roundabouts (including the DC tunnel) somewhat later, in 2012.
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Re: Most important non-trunk road?

Post by skiddaw05 »

ForestChav wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 21:57 Yes, I remember that bit is a bit, uh B road ish, went back that way to Banbury and the M40 for a change (because I find the M40 dull) when I'd been to Bicester to look at a digital practice organ (the Viscount showroom is there).

Now the more central bit further West I can understand, as it's more into the village and it's built up and narrowed a fair deal by parking (not significantly different to any road through a decent sized village like the A612 through Southwell), but this bit doesn't make much sense to me; it's straight, but the carriageway has no central markings, and only just appears wide enough to get two cars through let alone it actually being like that as the A41. There does seem to be plenty of space on either side to widen it if they wanted to, but not sure they would need or want to now, which leads me to consider that it might have been narrowed a bit as a form of traffic calming after it was an A-road?
There's a tell-tale wiggle in the kerblines in the distance which suggests exactly that.
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Re: Most important non-trunk road?

Post by Bryn666 »

jackal wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:24
Chris56000 wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 19:49 Hi!

A299 Thanet Way?

The dualling of this by Kent County Council was certainly a very large and ambitious scheme for a local authority, mostly grade–separated apart from at its eastern end from St. Nicholas–At–Wade onwards to Ramsgate, with one dual–carriageway and one single–carriageway tunnel!
The 90s grade separated section alone is about 17 miles long. It's pretty mind blowing that the A299 apparently wasn't trunk even prior to the 1998 review but still got such a massive upgrade.

The SC tunnel opened soon after, in 2000, and the section between Minster and Lord of the Manor roundabouts (including the DC tunnel) somewhat later, in 2012.
I'm guessing it was about economic regeneration given Planet Thanet is a bit run down. Still a huge spend; and one of the better examples of a local authority D2 out there, especially with the tunnel under a golf course as well.
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Re: Most important non-trunk road?

Post by wrinkly »

Herned wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 09:31 And rightly so! What is the point of having separate categories of trunk and primary? Either a road is important or it isn't
You might as well say everybody is either tall or short. What's wrong with having more than two levels of importance?
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Re: Most important non-trunk road?

Post by Was92now625 »

Steven wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 09:39
Herned wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 09:31 And rightly so! What is the point of having separate categories of trunk and primary? Either a road is important or it isn't
They are two entirely different concepts in separate Venn diagrams.

One is about who manages and pays for the road. The other is about the recommended route between places of traffic importance.
Separate categories yes. But why separate Venn Diagrams ? Surely different categories within the same Venn diagram ?
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Re: Most important non-trunk road?

Post by CallumParry »

Screen Shot 2021-04-23 at 1.43.52 PM.png
KeithW wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 08:59
jabbaboy wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 23:10 Either of these for the North East I'd say.

A66 from Teesport to the A19
A690 from A1(M) to the A19
A172/A1043/A171 from the A174 to Scarborough
A1231 from the A1 to the A19
The A66 from Middlesbrough to the A19 and on to Darlington and the A66(M) is already trunk, while I agree that it would make sense for it to be extended to Teesport the reality is that the section from Middlesbrough to Teesport is already being improved with money from the Government provided to the Tees Valley Combined authority as part of the plant to establish a Freeport on the old steelworks site which is now officially called Teesworks. Its likely that the rest of the A66 into that site will be trunked.
https://www.teesworks.co.uk/
https://www.teesworks.co.uk/the-development/site-map

The A690 between the A19 and A1 is a major road and a pretty good one.

I live in Marton-In-Cleveland just 400m from the A172. Its certainly busy but its mainly a commuter road as far as the A1043. It stopped being a major route when the A19 was rerouted over the Tees Viaduct. That said it has an AADF of 22k along what is an essence a standard D2 residential road. There was a plan to build an east Middlesbrough bypass, the stub of which is there but that has now been scuppered by Redcar and Cleveland Council allowing houses to be built on the southern end of the planned route.
Stub of A172 East Middlesbrough Bypass. From the end of it the route would have followed Ormesby Beck running alongside the railway line to the roundabout at the junction of the A1043 and A171
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.56757 ... 8192?hl=en

A172 in Marton
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.53068 ... 8192?hl=en

New housing blocking East Middlesbrough bypass route.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.53312 ... 6656?hl=en

This will of course make the traffic problems on the A172 and A171 even worse. That said this is the first time since the 1970's that the prospects for Teesside have looked so promising so we will live with it.
Highways England responsibility for the A66 ends at the A19 Interchange (near to the Teesside Park footbridge) the route through Middlebrough to Teessport is managed by Middlesbrough and Redcar councils
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 1-2020.pdf
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Re: Most important non-trunk road?

Post by Was92now625 »

Uncle Buck wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 07:55
Sorry I was thinking the A977 from Kincardine to Kinross and the A91 from Milnathort to St. Andrews, taken as one route. I think this is quite a significant road as the link from Glasgow and points south to that section of Fife as well as an alternative direct route to Dundee.
Been a long time since I've driven this road but it was an interesting drive. Single-carriageway, sometimes through towns. The bit on the M90 seemed a little like a 'false start' but then, on reaching Kincardine, the "intensity" of the road started increasing until you found yourself on the Glasgow IRR.
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Re: Most important non-trunk road?

Post by Nwallace »

Uncle Buck wrote:
Nwallace wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 23:47
Uncle Buck wrote:A39 in Cornwall? A811, A977/A91, and A697?

EDIT: or the A350?
The A91 is really just a link into St Andrews from Cupar and Stirling from the hill foots.
The A977 is the road to Glasgow from the Fife connected bits of the M90

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Sorry I was thinking the A977 from Kincardine to Kinross and the A91 from Milnathort to St. Andrews, taken as one route. I think this is quite a significant road as the link from Glasgow and points south to that section of Fife as well as an alternative direct route to Dundee.
Yeah, agree

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