Interstates.... and their initial development...

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Gav
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Interstates.... and their initial development...

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During the run up to the interstates I found an article on the testing of the pavements to try and find a standard to follow.

Along the alignment of the future I-80 they layed down road beds and trialed surfaces with different loads on them. utilised soldiers to drive weighted mules along them over the period of two years or so to see how various examples coped and the results #cough# #cough# paved the way forward for modern roads.

https://explorer.acpa.org/explorer/plac ... road-test/

https://transportationhistory.org/2020/ ... -illinois/

https://www.frrandp.com/2020/06/the-aas ... gh-in.html

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/50aasho.cfm

https://explorer.acpa.org/explorer/plac ... road-test/
56_AASHO-Road-Test-1.png
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Re: Interstates.... and their initial development...

Post by KeithW »

I would assume they also took a good long look at the New Jersey Turnpike, the first part of which opened in 1951 as well as the German autobahns, the US Army had a large presence in West Germany at the time. By 1955 the New Jersey Turnpike Authority was already widening the road from D2 to D4 and in the 1960's widened it to 8 lanes by adding a second D2 carriage way Giving D2-D2-D2-D2

See video here
https://archive.org/details/md-74752-ne ... -color-vwr

By 1954 the New York State Thruway was also open, in the early days they used metric signs in the Syracuse New York area but that was dropped.
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Re: Interstates.... and their initial development...

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KeithW wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 08:37 I would assume they also took a good long look at the New Jersey Turnpike, the first part of which opened in 1951 as well as the German autobahns, the US Army had a large presence in West Germany at the time. By 1955 the New Jersey Turnpike Authority was already widening the road from D2 to D4 and in the 1960's widened it to 8 lanes by adding a second D2 carriage way Giving D2-D2-D2-D2

See video here
https://archive.org/details/md-74752-ne ... -color-vwr

By 1954 the New York State Thruway was also open, in the early days they used metric signs in the Syracuse New York area but that was dropped.
The earliest modern American freeways were of course the Arroyo Seco Parkway between Pasadena and Los Angeles, and the Carlisle-Irwin section of the Pennsylvania Turnpike, both opened in 1940. The PA Turnpike is, for all intents and purposes, a tolled autobahn in terms of design - including narrow median, twisty mountain sections, and being very much unlike 1960s onwards designs. Eisenhower saw the immense strategic value in linking a vast landmass like the USA with federally funded high speed roads after experiencing the misery of the Lincoln Trail, and wartime experience gave him the clout to bring this to the forefront when he became President which led to the Interstate Defence Highways Act being approved - it wasn't until 1957 that anywhere got an Interstate shield.

As an aside, early British motorways were inspired directly by autobahns - in 1937 the ICE sent a group to visit Organisation Todt's progress on reichsautobahnen. The M5 between J3 and 8, M50, A20(M), M2, earliest bits of the M6 to name just some had far more in common with 1930s autobahn design than later motorways did.
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Re: Interstates.... and their initial development...

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Bryn666 wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:20 The earliest modern American freeways were of course the Arroyo Seco Parkway between Pasadena and Los Angeles, and the Carlisle-Irwin section of the Pennsylvania Turnpike, both opened in 1940. The PA Turnpike is, for all intents and purposes, a tolled autobahn in terms of design - including narrow median, twisty mountain sections, and being very much unlike 1960s onwards designs. Eisenhower saw the immense strategic value in linking a vast landmass like the USA with federally funded high speed roads after experiencing the misery of the Lincoln Trail, and wartime experience gave him the clout to bring this to the forefront when he became President which led to the Interstate Defence Highways Act being approved - it wasn't until 1957 that anywhere got an Interstate shield.

As an aside, early British motorways were inspired directly by autobahns - in 1937 the ICE sent a group to visit Organisation Todt's progress on reichsautobahnen. The M5 between J3 and 8, M50, A20(M), M2, earliest bits of the M6 to name just some had far more in common with 1930s autobahn design than later motorways did.
The origins of the Pennsylvania Turnpike date back to the 1930s when a new road across the state was needed. The builders took advantage of the abandoned 1885 south South Pennsylvania Railroad route. The rail company had run out of money after boring a series of tunnels through the mountains. The turnpike company was able to complete the route at lower cost by accepting steeper gradients and tighter curves.
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Re: Interstates.... and their initial development...

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KeithW wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 08:37 I would assume they also took a good long look at the New Jersey Turnpike, the first part of which opened in 1951 as well as the German autobahns, the US Army had a large presence in West Germany at the time. By 1955 the New Jersey Turnpike Authority was already widening the road from D2 to D4 and in the 1960's widened it to 8 lanes by adding a second D2 carriage way Giving D2-D2-D2-D2

See video here
https://archive.org/details/md-74752-ne ... -color-vwr

By 1954 the New York State Thruway was also open, in the early days they used metric signs in the Syracuse New York area but that was dropped.
Metric signs in staunchly imperial America, when any thoughts of metrication were two decades away, and no doubt very confusing to Americans whose cars were completely imperial then. I can only assume the planner had been to Germany and was still thinking in metric. Metrication in America has been one non event since a few attempts were made in the seventies and dropped as most Americans considered the system as un American.
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Re: Interstates.... and their initial development...

Post by KeithW »

Glenn A wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 19:09
Metric signs in staunchly imperial America, when any thoughts of metrication were two decades away, and no doubt very confusing to Americans whose cars were completely imperial then. I can only assume the planner had been to Germany and was still thinking in metric. Metrication in America has been one non event since a few attempts were made in the seventies and dropped as most Americans considered the system as un American.
Its simpler than that. The US Army had adopted the metric system in WW1 so when the Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways was implemented the default assumption was that metric units would be the norm.
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Re: Interstates.... and their initial development...

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KeithW wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 21:37
Glenn A wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 19:09
Metric signs in staunchly imperial America, when any thoughts of metrication were two decades away, and no doubt very confusing to Americans whose cars were completely imperial then. I can only assume the planner had been to Germany and was still thinking in metric. Metrication in America has been one non event since a few attempts were made in the seventies and dropped as most Americans considered the system as un American.
Its simpler than that. The US Army had adopted the metric system in WW1 so when the Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways was implemented the default assumption was that metric units would be the norm.
Obviously this didn't last long as American cars had imperial only speedometers and mileometers and this must have been a one off. However, metric measurements aside, the Interstate system was a massive achievement in America as it slashed journey times between cities and removed long distance traffic from many cities.
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Re: Interstates.... and their initial development...

Post by KeithW »

Glenn A wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 12:23
KeithW wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 21:37
Glenn A wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 19:09
Metric signs in staunchly imperial America, when any thoughts of metrication were two decades away, and no doubt very confusing to Americans whose cars were completely imperial then. I can only assume the planner had been to Germany and was still thinking in metric. Metrication in America has been one non event since a few attempts were made in the seventies and dropped as most Americans considered the system as un American.
Its simpler than that. The US Army had adopted the metric system in WW1 so when the Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways was implemented the default assumption was that metric units would be the norm.
Obviously this didn't last long as American cars had imperial only speedometers and mileometers and this must have been a one off. However, metric measurements aside, the Interstate system was a massive achievement in America as it slashed journey times between cities and removed long distance traffic from many cities.
It lasted, the US military still uses SI Units. The simple reality is that US government policy is that SI units should be adopted but it is not mandatory. Most US cars are capable of displaying metric speeds nd distances. Typically its just done by changing a setting. Lots of US cars end up in Mexico and Canada. US manufacturers used to sell a lot of cars in Australia.

Here is how you decide which display you want to see with a C-Max
http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_ ... 201309.pdf
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Re: Interstates.... and their initial development...

Post by Ruperts Trooper »

KeithW wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 15:14
Glenn A wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 12:23
KeithW wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 21:37

Its simpler than that. The US Army had adopted the metric system in WW1 so when the Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways was implemented the default assumption was that metric units would be the norm.
Obviously this didn't last long as American cars had imperial only speedometers and mileometers and this must have been a one off. However, metric measurements aside, the Interstate system was a massive achievement in America as it slashed journey times between cities and removed long distance traffic from many cities.
It lasted, the US military still uses SI Units. The simple reality is that US government policy is that SI units should be adopted but it is not mandatory. Most US cars are capable of displaying metric speeds nd distances. Typically its just done by changing a setting. Lots of US cars end up in Mexico and Canada. US manufacturers used to sell a lot of cars in Australia.

Here is how you decide which display you want to see with a C-Max
http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_ ... 201309.pdf
The Mercedes-Benz ML SUV was developed and built in the USA for sale all around the world - famously its displays could be switched between US units and metric units but not Imperial units - this was corrected in later versions.
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Re: Interstates.... and their initial development...

Post by owen b »

The US auto industry used to quote engine capacity in cubic inches but metricated decades ago to litres, aligning with practically everywhere else. So there have been some modest moves in the US towards metrication in some industries however "un-American" it might be deemed.
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Re: Interstates.... and their initial development...

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Don't call them "Imperial" in the USA - they're "US Customary Units". In any case the fluid/volume measures are entirely different though they share the names with Imperial measures, and the measures of weight are aggregated differently above the pound (no stones, different hundredweights and tons).
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Re: Interstates.... and their initial development...

Post by Bryn666 »

owen b wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 19:21 The US auto industry used to quote engine capacity in cubic inches but metricated decades ago to litres, aligning with practically everywhere else. So there have been some modest moves in the US towards metrication in some industries however "un-American" it might be deemed.
Americans understand "clicks" far better than we appear to do. It's a British myth that Americans are scared of metrication, they just don't need to make the switch being such a large country themselves with industry that can cope using it (even if their neighbours either side are using it fully).
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Re: Interstates.... and their initial development...

Post by KeithW »

Chris Bertram wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:59 Don't call them "Imperial" in the USA - they're "US Customary Units". In any case the fluid/volume measures are entirely different though they share the names with Imperial measures, and the measures of weight are aggregated differently above the pound (no stones, different hundredweights and tons).
They also have the long ton which is 2,240 pounds. US Customary units are basically the units used in England at the time of their independence as approved during the reign of Queen Anne. The UK adopted Imperial Units in 1826, The problem at the time was that there were different types of pint which was abused by the less honest retailer so the apothecaries pint of 20 ounces of water became the standard. This was a common standard in England, Scotland , Wales , Ireland and Berwick-on-Tweed :)
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Re: Interstates.... and their initial development...

Post by Chris Bertram »

KeithW wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 09:13
Chris Bertram wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:59 Don't call them "Imperial" in the USA - they're "US Customary Units". In any case the fluid/volume measures are entirely different though they share the names with Imperial measures, and the measures of weight are aggregated differently above the pound (no stones, different hundredweights and tons).
They also have the long ton which is 2,240 pounds. US Customary units are basically the units used in England at the time of their independence as approved during the reign of Queen Anne. The UK adopted Imperial Units in 1826, The problem at the time was that there were different types of pint which was abused by the less honest retailer so the apothecaries pint of 20 ounces of water became the standard. This was a common standard in England, Scotland , Wales , Ireland and Berwick-on-Tweed :)
Canada is almost entirely metric (though "soft metric" is common as in the UK), but draft beer is served in glasses in various sizes of fl oz, including the 20 fl oz Imperial pint. Packaged beer (and other drinks) will be labelled in metric but also with the equivalent in US customary units due to proximity with the Great Satan larger neighbour causing leakage of their units over the border.
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Re: Interstates.... and their initial development...

Post by J N Winkler »

Illinois DOT has signing to commemorate the AASHO Road Test that can be seen off eastbound I-80 near Ottawa at the site of the non-destructive weather testing loop, which is visible in satellite imagery. (StreetView is not terribly clear. The sign on the left has the Interstate 50th Anniversary logo.)
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