Roadtrip to Western USA & Mexico

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mistral
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Roadtrip to Western USA & Mexico

Post by mistral »

It's been a ridiculously long time since I last drove anywhere in the US. The last couple of times that I've been to the States have just been to pick up cruises from New York, but this December, the first part of our (me & my wife) round the world trip involves 3 weeks in California, Arizona & Nevada. The last time that I did an extensive roadtrip in that part of the world was in 1995, so I'm guessing that an immense amount has changed roadswise in that time.

As to the details, we'll be arriving in San Francisco at midday on December 20th, and leaving there at 8pm on January 10th. Those dates are fixed, as is the fact that we've a rented a 'full size' car from Alamo for the entire trip. Beyond that, it's a pretty open book as to what we do in the time that we're in the States. We're both into wine (we've done wine roadtrips around France, South Africa & Argentina in the past few years), as well as being into theme parks, the occasional museum/historic site and decent restaurants.

I got caught out by the weather once in Tulare County (CA) in December 1990, when I slid on ice, and went 150 foot down a ravine. Fortunately, I got saved by a tree that stopped the fall, and then by the local sheriff & his son who got me out of there! I'd prefer not to risk that type of situation again, so I think that places like Yosemite will be off limits, but beyond that, pretty much anywhere within 1000 miles of San Francisco is a possibility. Any ideas of places to visit, or roads to travel on?
Last edited by mistral on Sat Dec 24, 2022 14:30, edited 1 time in total.
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ChrisH
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Re: Roadtrip to California, Nevada & Arizona

Post by ChrisH »

It might not be drivable in winter, but I have very good memories of driving from Yosemite to Lake Tahoe via CA-49. Beautiful scenery and much less crowded than the major routes.

Very jealous of your trip by the way! What's the rest of the itinerary?
mistral
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Re: Roadtrip to California, Nevada & Arizona

Post by mistral »

ChrisH wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 15:05It might not be drivable in winter, but I have very good memories of driving from Yosemite to Lake Tahoe via CA-49. Beautiful scenery and much less crowded than the major routes.
Ironically enough, I was on my way to Yosemite when I had my accident. If I ever do get to Yosemite, it'll be during the summer, when the ice and snow have long gone!

As for Lake Tahoe, that may well be worth further investigation. :)
ChrisH wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 15:05Very jealous of your trip by the way! What's the rest of the itinerary?
The flight itinerary is as follows;

Dec 20th : Paris - San Francisco
Jan 10th : San Francisco - Auckland
Jan 12th : Auckland - Christchurch
Feb 2nd : Christchurch - Auckland
Feb 21st : Auckland - Singapore
Feb 22nd : Singapore - Langkawi
Mar 3rd : Langkawi - Singapore
Mar 7th : Singapore - Munich
Mar 8th : Munich - Paris

So far, the only bit of the driving itinerary that we've sorted out is for the South Island of New Zealand. That is (for now);

12/1 : Auckland - Christchurch
13/1 : Christchurch - Tekapo : 219 kms
14/1 : Tekapo
15/1 : Tekapo - Wanaka : 201 kms
16/1 : Wanaka
17/1 : Wanaka - Invercargill : 246 kms
18/1 : Invercargill
19/1 : Invercargill - Manapouri : 167 kms
20/1 : Manapouri - Doubtful Sound
21/1 : Manapouri - Milford Sound : 139 kms
21/1 : Milford Sound - Manapouri : 139 kms
22/1 : Manapouri
23/1 : Manapouri
24/1 : Manapouri - Haast : 383 kms
25/1 : Haast - Punakaiki : 375 kms
26/1 : Punakaiki - Blenheim : 292 kms
27/1 : Blenheim
28/1 : Blenheim
29/1 : Blenheim - Kaikoura : 144 kms
30/1 : Kaikoura
31/1 : Kaikoura
1/2 : Kaikoura - Christchurch : 184 kms
2/2 : Christchurch - Auckland

Still haven't even really considered what to do on the North Island, beyond visiting Rotorua, Wellington & some vineyards! That may be a topic for another thread. :)
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KeithW
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Re: Roadtrip to California, Nevada & Arizona

Post by KeithW »

The passes across the Sierra Nevada will be closed by then and I wouldnt try for Yosemite and the South Rim of the Grand Canyon will be dodgy

I would try this option which I did back in 2000

SF to Monterey
Monterey to LA via the Pacific Coast Highway with overnight stop.
note Hearst Castle is closed

LA to La Jolla/San Diego
San Diego to Palm Springs (bit pricey in winter)
Palm Springs to Joshua Tree NP
Joshua Tree NP to Las Vegas (midweek is cheapest)
Las Vegas to Death Valley 20C in winter But the road to Dantes View will probably be closed
DV to Bakersfield via CA 127, I-15 and CA 58
Bakersfield which will likely be around 22C to San Francisco by I-5 or San Jose

Lake Tahoe could be tricky, I have been there in winter but nearly got snowed in, its 6000 ft above sea level.
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Re: Roadtrip to California, Nevada & Arizona

Post by Truvelo »

I have been to Arizona several times in February which is a good time as the deserty parts are tolerable during the day - 70° to 80°F and the nights are comfortable to sleep. Higher elevations in the state such as Flagstaff have snow on the ground and it's a nice drive to Phoenix where descending along Interstate 17 means you go from the equivalent of winter to our summer in an hour and the landscape changes from pine trees and snow to cacti and sage.

As far as the areas already mentioned in California go I have only driven them in the summer when the grass is burnt orange and there are obviously no snow closures. At the very least the ski resorts should be open in December-January if that's your thing.
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mistral
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Re: Roadtrip to California, Nevada & Arizona

Post by mistral »

KeithW wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 16:43
SF to Monterey
Monterey to LA via the Pacific Coast Highway with overnight stop.
LA to La Jolla/San Diego
San Diego to Palm Springs
Palm Springs to Joshua Tree NP
Joshua Tree NP to Las Vegas
Las Vegas to Death Valley
DV to Bakersfield via CA 127, I-15 and CA 58
Bakersfield to San Francisco (by I-5 or San Jose)
That is very much the type of trip that I was thinking of, with the possible add ons of some vineyards, and a couple of places in Arizona. If the Grand Canyon isn't a feasible option, then I might well head down towards Phoenix for a couple of days, or perhaps drive a bit of the old Route 66 instead.
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Re: Roadtrip to California, Nevada & Arizona

Post by KeithW »

mistral wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 17:10
KeithW wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 16:43
SF to Monterey
Monterey to LA via the Pacific Coast Highway with overnight stop.
LA to La Jolla/San Diego
San Diego to Palm Springs
Palm Springs to Joshua Tree NP
Joshua Tree NP to Las Vegas
Las Vegas to Death Valley
DV to Bakersfield via CA 127, I-15 and CA 58
Bakersfield to San Francisco (by I-5 or San Jose)
That is very much the type of trip that I was thinking of, with the possible add ons of some vineyards, and a couple of places in Arizona. If the Grand Canyon isn't a feasible option, then I might well head down towards Phoenix for a couple of days, or perhaps drive a bit of the old Route 66 instead.
Grand Canyon may be open but accommodation within the NP usually has to be booked up to a year ahead. At 7000 ft above sea level nothing is guaranteed.

What you could do is book a two nights stay at a hotel in Flagstaff Arizona just off I-40 and do a day trip from there , its about an 80 mile drive each way.

If the GC is closed there alternatives even closer such as Meteor Crater and you could drive part of old Route 66 through Winona past the WigWam Motel
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@34.90284 ... 8192?hl=en
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@35.03213 ... 6656?hl=en

or Sedona which has wineries, an arts centre and is nice drive which usually gets no more than a dusting of snow
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@35.09299 ... 8192?hl=en
mistral
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Re: Roadtrip to California, Nevada & Arizona

Post by mistral »

KeithW wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 16:43 Grand Canyon may be open but accommodation within the NP usually has to be booked up to a year ahead. At 7000 ft above sea level nothing is guaranteed.

What you could do is book a two nights stay at a hotel in Flagstaff Arizona just off I-40 and do a day trip from there , its about an 80 mile drive each way.

If the GC is closed there alternatives even closer such as Meteor Crater and you could drive part of old Route 66 through Winona past the WigWam Motel
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@34.90284 ... 8192?hl=en
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@35.03213 ... 6656?hl=en

or Sedona which has wineries, an arts centre and is nice drive which usually gets no more than a dusting of snow
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@35.09299 ... 8192?hl=en
We're going to give ourselves three shots at getting to the Grand Canyon. We've booked three nights at a hotel on the old US-66 in Williams; it wasn't even me that was so determined to stay on Route 66! 😧😧

Staying in the park or up by Grand Canyon Junction is 2nd mortgage country, so staying in Williams was a pretty easy decision.

If the weather is against us, trips to Sedona, the Painted Desert or Meteor Crater should keep us amused.
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Re: Roadtrip to California, Nevada & Arizona

Post by KeithW »

mistral wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 12:22
We're going to give ourselves three shots at getting to the Grand Canyon. We've booked three nights at a hotel on the old US-66 in Williams; it wasn't even me that was so determined to stay on Route 66! 😧😧

Staying in the park or up by Grand Canyon Junction is 2nd mortgage country, so staying in Williams was a pretty easy decision.

If the weather is against us, trips to Sedona, the Painted Desert or Meteor Crater should keep us amused.
Painted Desert and parts of Petrified Forest NP are practically on the route to Meteor Crater , I did all of them in one day. This was actually a diversion when I drove Route 66 in 2000

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Re: Roadtrip to California, Nevada & Arizona

Post by aj444 »

I enjoyed Bryce canyon more than the Grand Canyon (spectacular though it was)...
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Re: Roadtrip to California, Nevada & Arizona

Post by bart »

Be flexible! At that time of year snow can close all the roads over the Sierras (even I-80 and US-50) or make them impassable without chains. So don't have a fixed itinerary that has you in Reno, say, the night before you're due to fly out from SFO. I agree that the Pacific Coast Highway is awesome.

*Don't* go to Grand Canyon West; the Skywalk is a disappointment. If you can get to Zion and/or Bryce, I recommend them both. Sedona, AZ was also very beautiful when I went there in September and I had a fun hot air balloon ride; I don't know what it's like in the winter. There's a Route 66 Museum in Kingman, AZ that's worth about an hour of your time if you're passing through (one of the longest unimproved sections of Route 66 goes east of Kingman). Walnut Canyon (site of ancient cave dwellings -- most of the ancient Puebloan sites are further east), Petrified Forest, and Meteor Crater are all worth a visit if you go east of Flagstaff. I recommend the Musical Instrument Museum if you're in Phoenix, and I suggest staying in/around Old Town Scottsdale rather than Phoenix itself.
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Re: Roadtrip to California, Nevada & Arizona

Post by mikehindsonevans »

bart wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 21:30 Be flexible! At that time of year snow can close all the roads over the Sierras (even I-80 and US-50) or make them impassable without chains. So don't have a fixed itinerary that has you in Reno, say, the night before you're due to fly out from SFO. I agree that the Pacific Coast Highway is awesome.

*Don't* go to Grand Canyon West; the Skywalk is a disappointment. If you can get to Zion and/or Bryce, I recommend them both. Sedona, AZ was also very beautiful when I went there in September and I had a fun hot air balloon ride; I don't know what it's like in the winter. There's a Route 66 Museum in Kingman, AZ that's worth about an hour of your time if you're passing through (one of the longest unimproved sections of Route 66 goes east of Kingman). Walnut Canyon (site of ancient cave dwellings -- most of the ancient Puebloan sites are further east), Petrified Forest, and Meteor Crater are all worth a visit if you go east of Flagstaff. I recommend the Musical Instrument Museum if you're in Phoenix, and I suggest staying in/around Old Town Scottsdale rather than Phoenix itself.
Bart,. You echoed my advice from a three-week tour of California, Arizona and Nevada in Nov-Dec 2019.

You need to expect the weather to be "variable". We were nearly snowed in in Flagstaff, then rain absolutely **** down near Las Vegas before gin-clear skies the next morning at Hoover Dam.

Grand Canyon can be variable but is worth the view (we had a foot of snow lying in some of the car parks.

Bryce Canyon is lovely (Lok at Ruby's Best Western) but I had the first snows of winter there on 22nd October in 2000, when I took my late wife's ashes to Inspiration Point.

America's southwest is lovely, wild and variable. Prepare for a range of weather's, and temperatures.

We plan to "do" New Zealand in March to April of 2024. Any experience from your trip will be gratefully received in due course.
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mistral
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Re: Roadtrip to California, Nevada & Arizona

Post by mistral »

Many thanks for all the comments. We've had a slight change of plan with regards to the Grand Canyon. Rather than just spending three days in Williams, we've also decided (as a fallback) to stay for another three nights just to the east of Flagstaff. Hopefully, we'd get a break in any bad weather at some point during those six days. Fingers crossed!!

Broadly, the itinerary so far is looking like San Francisco - Death Valley - Las Vegas - Grand Canyon - San Diego - CA 1 - San Francisco. Some of the other potential options such as Bryce Canyon, the Napa & Sonoma wine areas & Yosemite will have to wait for another time. There's just never enough time to do everything ... oh to be Methuselah sometimes!
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Re: Roadtrip to California, Nevada & Arizona

Post by Peter Freeman »

Metering signals are prevalent on CA freeways. If you drive much in CA big cities, at high traffic times, tell us your impressions of metering effectiveness.
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Re: Roadtrip to California, Nevada & Arizona

Post by bothar »

Peter Freeman wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 09:03 Metering signals are prevalent on CA freeways. If you drive much in CA big cities, at high traffic times, tell us your impressions of metering effectiveness.
Metering makes more sense than junction traffic lights which send large batches of traffic down the ramp at the same time.
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Re: Roadtrip to California, Nevada & Arizona

Post by mikehindsonevans »

mistral wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 02:46 Many thanks for all the comments. We've had a slight change of plan with regards to the Grand Canyon. Rather than just spending three days in Williams, we've also decided (as a fallback) to stay for another three nights just to the east of Flagstaff. Hopefully, we'd get a break in any bad weather at some point during those six days. Fingers crossed!!

Broadly, the itinerary so far is looking like San Francisco - Death Valley - Las Vegas - Grand Canyon - San Diego - CA 1 - San Francisco. Some of the other potential options such as Bryce Canyon, the Napa & Sonoma wine areas & Yosemite will have to wait for another time. There's just never enough time to do everything ... oh to be Methuselah sometimes!
Hope that you will have a fabulous journey, but don't underestimate the distances involved. Don't skimp on your choice of vehicle. We rented a Nissan Armada and it proved most adept at swallowing the miles (and all our luggage-thanks British Airways business class!).
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Re: Roadtrip to California, Nevada & Arizona

Post by mistral »

We've changed our plans a bit now. We're now just going to do 10 days in Vegas (with a few side trips), followed by 10 days in Loreto (Baja California) to watch blue whales.

Driving 2,500 miles in wintry weather for three weeks just wasn't appealing enough ... I saw some some pictures of the snowdrifts in Williams in January, and that just led us to looking for something warmer!
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Re: Roadtrip to California, Nevada & Arizona

Post by KeithW »

mistral wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 20:41 We've changed our plans a bit now. We're now just going to do 10 days in Vegas (with a few side trips), followed by 10 days in Loreto (Baja California) to watch blue whales.

Driving 2,500 miles in wintry weather for three weeks just wasn't appealing enough ... I saw some some pictures of the snowdrifts in Williams in January, and that just led us to looking for something warmer!
10 days in Vegas !

I ran out of interest after 4. Vegas is a long way from anywhere.

It may be on your list but its an ideal time of year to do Death Valley, temperatures range from 20-25 C in summer to 4 C at night. Its only a 2 hour drive from Vegas but it is high season so accommodation should be booked in advance. Last time I stayed in Beatty Nevada. Pahrump is also an option and both are only a 40 minute drive away

Then there is the Amargosa Opera House and Hotel
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@36.30215 ... 8192?hl=en

Unfortunately live performances ended a very long time ago.
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Re: Roadtrip to California, Nevada & Arizona

Post by bart »

In Vegas, I definitely recommend Meow Wolf's Omega Mart. It's hard to say much about it without including spoilers but it's genuinely fun and you can easily spend 3-4 hours there exploring the narrative. Don't let the phrase "interactive, immersive art installation" put you off, even if, like me, you think the Turner Prize is a load of nonsense.
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Re: Roadtrip to California, Nevada & Arizona

Post by mistral »

KeithW wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 22:58
mistral wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 20:41 We've changed our plans a bit now. We're now just going to do 10 days in Vegas (with a few side trips), followed by 10 days in Loreto (Baja California) to watch blue whales.

Driving 2,500 miles in wintry weather for three weeks just wasn't appealing enough ... I saw some some pictures of the snowdrifts in Williams in January, and that just led us to looking for something warmer!
It may be on your list but its an ideal time of year to do Death Valley, temperatures range from 20-25 C in summer to 4 C at night.
We're doing three trips out of Vegas whilst we're there; we'll be driving to Death Valley and back, as well as doing two coach tours to Bryce Canyon (on Christmas Eve) & the Grand Canyon (on the 28th). If the long distance trips can't go ahead because of the weather, that will be a bit of a shame, but I can only hope that I will be able to get to some of these places in the future!
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