Old Concrete Road, Penrith

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hat
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Old Concrete Road, Penrith

Post by hat »

Does anyone know the origins of this road, and is it driveable?
Old Concrete Rd

Penrith https://g.co/kgs/WPT2Ve
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KeithW
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Re: Old Concrete Road, Penrith

Post by KeithW »

hat wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 09:52 Does anyone know the origins of this road, and is it driveable?
Old Concrete Rd

Penrith https://g.co/kgs/WPT2Ve
Its origins are in the expansion of Haweswater to provide water for Manchester. Part of it seems to be a cycleway

See
https://www.lakedistricttravelguide.co. ... haweswater
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/6119416

https://www.plotaroute.com/route/698573
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FosseWay
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Re: Old Concrete Road, Penrith

Post by FosseWay »

I suspect it has something to do with the construction of the Haweswater dam. It is visible on SABRE Maps' 1:25 000 mapping.

The Wikipedia article about the reservoir mentions that building materials were fetched to the dam from Swindale, which is to the east and whose mouth is crossed by this road. At the eastern end of the concrete road, where it crosses the A6, the angle of its course suggests a direct connection to the railway. I therefore wonder whether it originally was a railway for bringing building materials, rather than a road. This would explain its course, contouring round, rather than just using the existing road network from Bampton.
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FosseWay
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Re: Old Concrete Road, Penrith

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Some of the concrete road is on GSV, but there are some very strange anomalies going on. Like this one, where the road appears to go through a farmyard immediately to the west of this bridge, even though there is no farm there on satellite view. Neither is there a farmyard anywhere else on the course of the road, on GSV or not (which of course fits with it being a former railway - they wouldn't have chosen to build a railway through a farmyard, I imagine).

Or here, where the right-hand (northward) turn to Rayside is completely absent ahead of you until it... suddenly isn't.
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Alderpoint
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Re: Old Concrete Road, Penrith

Post by Alderpoint »

FosseWay wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:11 I suspect it has something to do with the construction of the Haweswater dam. It is visible on SABRE Maps' 1:25 000 mapping.

The Wikipedia article about the reservoir mentions that building materials were fetched to the dam from Swindale, which is to the east and whose mouth is crossed by this road. At the eastern end of the concrete road, where it crosses the A6, the angle of its course suggests a direct connection to the railway. I therefore wonder whether it originally was a railway for bringing building materials, rather than a road. This would explain its course, contouring round, rather than just using the existing road network from Bampton.
It doesn't appear on RailMapOnline which shows the tramways further south associated with the Haweswater to Manchester aquaduct, and other reservoir construction lines such as that for the Upper Nidderdale reservoirs. There is a reference here to the Haweswater Construction Road, but I would not consider that definitive evidence and can't find any other references to that.
Last edited by Alderpoint on Wed Apr 20, 2022 13:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Old Concrete Road, Penrith

Post by SteelCamel »

FosseWay wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:45 Some of the concrete road is on GSV, but there are some very strange anomalies going on. Like this one, where the road appears to go through a farmyard immediately to the west of this bridge, even though there is no farm there on satellite view. Neither is there a farmyard anywhere else on the course of the road, on GSV or not (which of course fits with it being a former railway - they wouldn't have chosen to build a railway through a farmyard, I imagine).

Or here, where the right-hand (northward) turn to Rayside is completely absent ahead of you until it... suddenly isn't.
The streetview data for 2010 seems to have the wrong locations. If you force it to 2009, you will get what appears to be the correct streetview. Leave it on 2010 and it shows you photos from other random locations in the area. I've reported it to Google, let's see if they do anything about it.
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Re: Old Concrete Road, Penrith

Post by IanRB »

You used to be able to drive along that road, which I did several times many years ago.

The east end does indeed cross the A6 to what OS maps name as 'Shap Granite Works', which are associated with the Shap Blue Quarry. I had always assumed that the road was built to transport material from there to the dam.
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Re: Old Concrete Road, Penrith

Post by Helvellyn »

FosseWay wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:11 I suspect it has something to do with the construction of the Haweswater dam. It is visible on SABRE Maps' 1:25 000 mapping.

The Wikipedia article about the reservoir mentions that building materials were fetched to the dam from Swindale, which is to the east and whose mouth is crossed by this road. At the eastern end of the concrete road, where it crosses the A6, the angle of its course suggests a direct connection to the railway. I therefore wonder whether it originally was a railway for bringing building materials, rather than a road. This would explain its course, contouring round, rather than just using the existing road network from Bampton.
Still looks a bit hilly for a railway or tramway. Mardale was drowned in the 30s, it's possible that the local road network at the time simply wasn't capable of handling a lot of heavy construction traffic (not so much the space but the fact it would get churned up to nothing in short order) so building a new road to bring in material was the easiest option.
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Re: Old Concrete Road, Penrith

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Helvellyn wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 09:55
FosseWay wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:11 I suspect it has something to do with the construction of the Haweswater dam. It is visible on SABRE Maps' 1:25 000 mapping.

The Wikipedia article about the reservoir mentions that building materials were fetched to the dam from Swindale, which is to the east and whose mouth is crossed by this road. At the eastern end of the concrete road, where it crosses the A6, the angle of its course suggests a direct connection to the railway. I therefore wonder whether it originally was a railway for bringing building materials, rather than a road. This would explain its course, contouring round, rather than just using the existing road network from Bampton.
Still looks a bit hilly for a railway or tramway. Mardale was drowned in the 30s, it's possible that the local road network at the time simply wasn't capable of handling a lot of heavy construction traffic (not so much the space but the fact it would get churned up to nothing in short order) so building a new road to bring in material was the easiest option.
Yes, given the info from Alderpoint above as well, I think my suggestion of a railway is wrong. It's a sign of the progress of road transport, I guess: the Elan Valley dams were built 30-odd years earlier in similar terrain, and for them a railway bed was created (which is also followable in parts on the ground today).
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Re: Old Concrete Road, Penrith

Post by WhiteBlueRed »

These concrete slab roads were not uncommon in the Soviet Union. We call them "betonka".
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hat
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Re: Old Concrete Road, Penrith

Post by hat »

interesting stuff being discovered on this. i think its weird that it's actually labeled on google maps as 'old concrete road'
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RichardA35
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Re: Old Concrete Road, Penrith

Post by RichardA35 »

Complementing these are a series of aerial images available through the historic england site showing the works during construction
https://historicengland.org.uk/images-b ... al-photos/ such as:
https://historicengland.org.uk/images-b ... EPW048603
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Big Nick
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Re: Old Concrete Road, Penrith

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hat wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 09:52 Does anyone know the origins of this road, and is it driveable?
Old Concrete Rd

Penrith https://g.co/kgs/WPT2Ve
I drove the entire length of it back in 2011 from Burnbanks to the A6. It is unusual in that the whole road is very genteel and has long steady curves to take it down hill. This made life easier for the lorry drivers in the 1930s who had not so powerful engines and large loads to take to the Haweswater Reservoir and dam. It is rather bumpy over all the joints in the slabs but fun to drive.
I was under the impression that the water pipe ran under the road as well but now I doubt it.

Burnbanks was the original workers village and the houses were prefab iron components with little insulation or sound proofing. They survived until the early 2000s when the authority replaced them with brick buildings in a similar style and layout. There's an information board on the village green. I walked through there in 2015 on the Coast to Coast.
Image
Last edited by Big Nick on Wed Apr 20, 2022 21:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Old Concrete Road, Penrith

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Re: Old Concrete Road, Penrith

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Big Nick wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 19:59 I was under the impression that the water pipe ran under the road as well but now I doubt it.
Route of the aquaduct is shown on the Tatham History site.
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Re: Old Concrete Road, Penrith

Post by Ross Spur »

Glad this came up, I had seen references to the Mardale New Road in the Penrith Observer but couldn't work out the line, with thinking it was a public road. The 2 June 1936 edition gives a full report of a visit to the Haweswater Reservoir construction works by 100 members of Manchester Corporation and others, accompanied by the correspondent.

They travelled by 5 Ribble Motors coaches on the concrete road on their way from Shap Station to Mardale. It mentioned that the road was constructed before the works to allow the conveyance of materials for construction of the dam, the 5 mile outflow tunnel to Long Sleddale, and other works. It was 5.75 mile long from the main Penrith - Kendal road, at a point near to Shap Granite Works, to the Mardale valley.

It also mentioned the new road along the south-east side of the lake from Naddle Gate to the head of the valley, 4.75 mile long with a 20 foot carriageway.

A 1 December 1931 report stated that hundreds of thousands of pounds had been spent on preliminary work, including the village of Burn Banks and the cutting of the new road, so it looks to have been built at the start of the 1930s.
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Re: Old Concrete Road, Penrith

Post by Glenn A »

The remains of Mardale reappeared during a severe drought in the summer of 1995, when water levels at Haweswater fell to critical levels( this was the summer of standpipes in parts of the North West).
I'd imagine the construction of the reservoir and its access road was part of a programme to relieve unemployment in what we now call Cumbria, where the western side had chronic unemployment, and some of the workers could have been transported to the Penrith area to build the reservoir. Other works schemes at this time would have been the by passes of central Whitehaven and Distington on the A595.
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Re: Old Concrete Road, Penrith

Post by KeithW »

Glenn A wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 21:27 The remains of Mardale reappeared during a severe drought in the summer of 1995, when water levels at Haweswater fell to critical levels( this was the summer of standpipes in parts of the North West).
I'd imagine the construction of the reservoir and its access road was part of a programme to relieve unemployment in what we now call Cumbria, where the western side had chronic unemployment, and some of the workers could have been transported to the Penrith area to build the reservoir. Other works schemes at this time would have been the by passes of central Whitehaven and Distington on the A595.
Thats incorrect I fear, the dam and road were built to supply water to Manchester by the city Corporation. They also built the Woodhead Reservoir.
http://www.engineering-timelines.com/sc ... asp?id=888
https://co-curate.ncl.ac.uk/haweswater-reservoir/
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Re: Old Concrete Road, Penrith

Post by dewy »

Just came across this through Google, and you may be interested in an update, because I drove along this road yesterday. I have used it a few times previously, because it's an excellent shortcut from J39 of the M6 to Swindale or Haweswater. I assume it's owned by United Utilities, because there are plenty of UU signs saying that the road is private property, there is dangerous subsidence, the bridges are weak, and the road is closed - but there are no gates or other barriers, and to me the condition is no worse than a typical public road. The signage isn't consistent. Where it crosses the road into Swindale there are no UU signs at all, and it's the UU road that has priority - the Give Way signs are on the public road. The stretch by the A6 is not accessible, but you can drive the full length from the Wet Sleddale road to Burnbanks, and it does get a fair amount of use.
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