South Armagh signpost

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Big Nick
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South Armagh signpost

Post by Big Nick »

I came upon this news article from last year and was wondering whether the sign was Manky, or Rare, or Pre-Worboys or whatever. But I liked the whimsy in the writing so it gets its own post!
Each arm has a destination with a fractional distance and in good old Irish tradition it takes you the long way around :lol:
It's here, by the way. https://goo.gl/maps/nPL4fexyPvVMi4Ut6

https://www.newry.ie/news/south-armagh- ... all-closer
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Re: South Armagh signpost

Post by AndyB »

… I will have to take a look at that in real life. It has been repainted, as you can see, so what I’m wondering is whether it used to be correct.

Fascinating.
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Re: South Armagh signpost

Post by JohnnyMo »

Equally odd is the Green tourist sign ( if you rotate left) or in the background of the newspaper
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Re: South Armagh signpost

Post by A42_Sparks »

Fantastic find!
AndyB wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 19:44 … I will have to take a look at that in real life. It has been repainted, as you can see, so what I’m wondering is whether it used to be correct.
There appears to be other destinations under the ones you can read, is this what you mean by repainted? Was this perhaps in another location originally?
JohnnyMo wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 19:59 Equally odd is the Green tourist sign ( if you rotate left)
Not many of those left now, I think they're much better-looking than the brown ones. Here's another example in Glenavy.
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Re: South Armagh signpost

Post by Big Nick »

AndyB wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 19:44 … I will have to take a look at that in real life. It has been repainted, as you can see, so what I’m wondering is whether it used to be correct.

Fascinating.
I'm thinking they took the arms from other signs to repair this one in the middle of nowhere. It would be good if you can work out where the arms were originally.

Please share any pics you take on here.
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Re: South Armagh signpost

Post by bothar »

AndyB wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 19:44 … I will have to take a look at that in real life. It has been repainted, as you can see, so what I’m wondering is whether it used to be correct.

Fascinating.
Good find and although I have been there I did not recall this.
It is a repaint of signs taken from elsewhere. A better view can be seen if you reverse the Google Street view to 2009. The Killeavy Old Churches is still clear and you should visit there AndyB while seeing the sign, these are medieval ruins on a site founded by St Moninna. The opposite arm said Newry, but is now weathered back to its early use on the A28. The other arms were painted to say Camlough and Jonesborough/Forkhill, the previous sign for the B10 (Scarva/Banbridge) is from further away, probably this was on the A27. I expect that these signs belonged to Armagh County Council back in the day and were recycled when Worboys signs were erected some 50+ years ago.

One small Sabristic point, the underlying sign repainted as Forkhill directs people to Castleblayney and spells the town as it is spelt in the ROI and on maps. But Worboys signs spell this as Castleblaney for no apparent reason.
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Re: South Armagh signpost

Post by Bryn666 »

There used to be green tourist signs in GB as well - https://goo.gl/maps/FVZyFqDNM7K2bTn9A was one.

The general phase-in of brown signs started around 1987 or so, it was pre-Guildford. Scotland had older experiments.
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Re: South Armagh signpost

Post by AndyB »

Excuse this being entirely from memory!

The original NI Worboys tourist signs looked like this or this, only in green text on white with the type of place below it. Very like the Killeagh churches fingerpost.

In one of the more sensible moves by NI, we probably had the prototype of the brown signs from about 1975. Still with green borders, the text became black, and there were I think six pictorial symbols in green, including Ancient monument, Country Park and Forest Park. Know your Traffic Signs 1981 edition had an extra page pasted in in NI to show the NI signs.

Apart from the change to white on brown, and the replacement with the superior 1987-onwards symbols (the Crawfordsburn example I linked to above being a like for like replacement), the NI designs set the present day practice.
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Re: South Armagh signpost

Post by Bryn666 »

AndyB wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 19:40 Excuse this being entirely from memory!

The original NI Worboys tourist signs looked like this or this, only in green text on white with the type of place below it. Very like the Killeagh churches fingerpost.

In one of the more sensible moves by NI, we probably had the prototype of the brown signs from about 1975. Still with green borders, the text became black, and there were I think six pictorial symbols in green, including Ancient monument, Country Park and Forest Park. Know your Traffic Signs 1981 edition had an extra page pasted in in NI to show the NI signs.

Apart from the change to white on brown, and the replacement with the superior 1987-onwards symbols (the Crawfordsburn example I linked to above being a like for like replacement), the NI designs set the present day practice.
NI and Scotland do seem to have gone their own way with stuff that England (and to a lesser extent, Wales) hasn't. Motorway signing practice too - NI's flashing red lights spring to mind.
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Re: South Armagh signpost

Post by AndyB »

Should have added that the Green tourist signs post-1975 had mixed case black text. Basically, a local destinations or MOD sign with a green border and a green chevron at the pointed end, and a green round symbol at the square end.
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Re: South Armagh signpost

Post by Berk »

I always wondered where those pre-Worboys tourist signs had been deployed.
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Re: South Armagh signpost

Post by AndyB »

I finally got to the Ballintemple crossroads via the back roads from Crossmaglen, several old green tourist signs, and a switchback.

I’ve photographed front and back of all four fingers, and I’ll post descriptions later on.
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Re: South Armagh signpost

Post by Berk »

Has anyone solves the mystery of why the destinations were changed so many times??

It seems as if, when erected, it only displayed PD’s (or whatever passed for them in those days). Then at a later point, the importance of the junction must’ve been reassessed, and the destinations changed to local ones only. But it’s been done extremely cheaply.

Given that it’s situated in Co. Armagh, were the destinations changed to help the Army and RUC?? In that case, the reverse probably applies (started off as a local sign, and local destinations substituted by PD’s later).

It’s so blurry, it even makes me wonder if the real fingerpost was substituted. :confused:
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Re: South Armagh signpost

Post by AndyB »

No, it was clearly moved from several locations, repainted and reused. Believe me, it is not half a mile from Scarva or 5 miles from Banbridge. I have no idea what LYLO is but that's definitely what it says under Killeavy Old Church and Lurgan.

Anyway. The arms are as follows:

Original: B10 Scarva 1/2 Banbridge 5
New: Camlough 3 C207

Original: Keady Forkhill 15 1/2 C198
New: Jonesborough 6 1/4 Castleblayney 16 1/2 C207

Original: B2 LYLO Lurgan 1/2
New: Killeavy Old church 5 1/2

Original:
Markethill 3 1/2 Armagh 10 A28
New: Newry 3 1/2

All destinations are local, reasonable enough on C and U roads. Only Newry is a PD.
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Re: South Armagh signpost

Post by Berk »

So it’s definitely a recycled fingerpost then. Without a map in front of me I couldn’t recall whether the proximity was there. Being unable to read the numbers didn’t help.

Could you make an informed guess where the sign had travelled from??

Was also surprised that Castleblayney was listed as a destination. Did signs in NI still include southern towns in those days??
Last edited by Berk on Sat Aug 19, 2023 21:25, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: South Armagh signpost

Post by AndyB »

Well, while the A28 does meet the B2, it's only three miles from Markethill, and a lot more than half a mile from Lurgan. It's from four different junctions.
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Re: South Armagh signpost

Post by Berk »

Yes, just realised the arms have come from separate fingerposts - which is why none of it makes sense.

Money must’ve been very tight back then. Or the divisional engineer was very stingy.

There must also have been a gap between the unveiling of this finger post, and the ancient monuments sign being erected. Otherwise you wouldn’t need to sign the Killeavy Churches twice.
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Re: South Armagh signpost

Post by AndyB »

Well, quite. It would have unlawful to erect the fingerpost post-1964.
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Re: South Armagh signpost

Post by Berk »

Mind you I’ve seen similar fingerposts (in England) with the destinations in Transport. Hard to tell if it was a like for like replacement or not.
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Re: South Armagh signpost

Post by AndyB »

It was probably a quick fix because the old one had been knocked down or something and the county council (as it would have been) was broke
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