NC500 Road Surface

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clc
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NC500 Road Surface

Post by clc »

I drove parts of the NC500 over the weekend, though not the single track sections. I was especially looking forward to the A835 north of Ullapool then A837 to Lochinver as I’d read these were great driving roads. However, the road surface was quite poor. It’s not that there were many potholes as such, more that the road seemed to have subsided which resulted in a bumpy ride for much of the time. It spoiled the experience. I don’t think I’ll be doing it again. I did enjoy the drive from Garve to Ullapool as that section was well maintained (and the views from Ullapool were beautiful).

Not part of the NC500 but the A839 from Lairg to the A9 was really smooth, I enjoyed driving that a lot.
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Re: NC500 Road Surface

Post by Alderpoint »

I spent most of last week up there and the road conditions were generally pretty good - yes there is the occasional pothole but there are also long stretches of new tarmac and many places on single track road where they have doubled the number of passing places. Visitors need to understand that this is really remote country and it's hard and expensive to maintain a glass-level surface all the time.
That said, the locals don't help themselves: whilst many welcome the additional visitors a very-vocal segment seem to revel in slagging off any visitor who doesn't conform to their "exacting" standands; sufficient to say that after actively promoting and reporting our NC500 experience, I have deleted all my reports and comments due to those locals' feedback.
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Euan
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Re: NC500 Road Surface

Post by Euan »

clc wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 19:58 I drove parts of the NC500 over the weekend, though not the single track sections. I was especially looking forward to the A835 north of Ullapool then A837 to Lochinver as I’d read these were great driving roads. However, the road surface was quite poor. It’s not that there were many potholes as such, more that the road seemed to have subsided which resulted in a bumpy ride for much of the time. It spoiled the experience. I don’t think I’ll be doing it again. I did enjoy the drive from Garve to Ullapool as that section was well maintained (and the views from Ullapool were beautiful).

Not part of the NC500 but the A839 from Lairg to the A9 was really smooth, I enjoyed driving that a lot.
It could be down to the sheer popularity of the drive in recent years that the road surface has deteriorated. South of Ullapool the A835 is a trunk route so it will be maintained to a higher standard than the roads to the north. The surge in visitor numbers to the area seemed to be quite sudden and may not have been foreseen at the time the last major surface maintenance took place.

I think that while the North Coast 500 is a very popular drive these days you don’t have to venture too far inland off the designated route to find much quieter roads which might explain the better surface of the A839 from The Mound compared to, for instance, the A837 out to Lochinver.
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M19
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Re: NC500 Road Surface

Post by M19 »

I was up in Scotland towards the end of May and drove to Lochinver and found the road had was undulating surface with some quite rough bits more of which was due to badly worn and weathered surface dressing, but there were few potholes. It was much better than some sections of the A82 between Tarbet and Crianlarich which were badly rutted, so much so that I found myself slowing to less than 20mph to negotiate to be kind to my 19” alloys.

For balance there were quite a few freshly surfaced stretches showing at least an effort to maintain the network. Much better than the roads around Northamptonshire where KierWSP appear to be instructed to “maintain” the network with pointless repairs - the sort where pothole repairs involves picking out a random pothole from several then chucking in a shovel of tarmac to half fill it, stamping on it a few times and driving off - that’s a poor way to spend a very limit budget. I’m hoping the Northants authorities will replace them with a more competent highways contractor, which I suspect is wishful thinking but I digress.

From Lochinver I went to Clachtoll Beach and then continued around the B869 through Drumbeg. Being single track, progress was tediously slow and a bit hairy, having to squeeze past a lot of large campervans at narrow passing places. The surface would vary between smooth fresh tarmac to a few rough stretches. It got interesting getting to crests of some hills (slowly I must add) and briefly seeing no road beyond the bonnet - it wasn’t helped by being in a fairly low car. I was glad to the end of the B869, get onto the A894 and head back to Ullapool.

What made up for the tedious and hairy B869 was being able to drive quite spiritedly back from Ullapool on the A835 back to Muir of Ord with nothing in front until I got to Garve. I made the most of sport mode and the paddle gear changes. It was one of the best bits of driving I’ve had for a good while. The better surfacing on that road helped.
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rileyrob
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Re: NC500 Road Surface

Post by rileyrob »

Roads in the north of Scotland seem to be suffering from a strange failure this year, one which I haven't come across (certainly as any more than a localised problem) in the past. This is that they are developing large, shallow 'pot holes', where the top surface, to a depth of maybe 5-10mm, of the road fails over an area which can extend to several square metres while the lower portion of the same tarmac layer seems to survive. This causes wide rough patches, without the thunk-thunk of a pothole. I'd be interested to hear any theories on why this is happening. I have primarily encountered it on the A82, A84 and A85 - trunk routes, but also in Fife and elsewhere. (I haven't as yet, actually stopped and examined these failures close up).

There are also a couple of places where the road has become furrowed. The one I have encountered regularly is on the A82 S/B at Auch (Bridge of Orchy - Tyndrum), where the furrow seems to drag you into the entrance to Auch. It seems to be that the edge of the road foundation has collapsed. I found a couple more over the weekend, one on the A830 and one on the B851 / B862 route. They can be quite unnerving, as they steer you into the verge.

Argyll and Highland seem to have spent a lot of time, and no doubt money, on resurfacing minor roads, some of them only serving a couple of houses, over the last couple of years or so. I have found long stretches of fresh tarmac in Strath Conon, Farr - Strathdearn, Kilmore - Muasdale and a variety of B roads so far this year. Judging by the bits not resurfaced, some of these repairs might be the first work for 30-40 years. Hopefully problems on the A roads of the NC500 will be attended to in due course, although most of them have almost certainly been resurfaced in the last 20 years, so HC are probably hoping they will last another year or two to help stretch their budgets!
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Re: NC500 Road Surface

Post by owen b »

rileyrob wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 09:08 Argyll and Highland seem to have spent a lot of time, and no doubt money, on resurfacing minor roads, some of them only serving a couple of houses, over the last couple of years or so. I have found long stretches of fresh tarmac in Strath Conon, Farr - Strathdearn, Kilmore - Muasdale and a variety of B roads so far this year. Judging by the bits not resurfaced, some of these repairs might be the first work for 30-40 years. Hopefully problems on the A roads of the NC500 will be attended to in due course, although most of them have almost certainly been resurfaced in the last 20 years, so HC are probably hoping they will last another year or two to help stretch their budgets!
Not in Argyll or for that matter anywhere near the NC500, but one of the most badly surfaced roads I have driven in recent years is the minor road from Loch Tay to Bridge of Balgie (Glen Lyon). When I was up that way last month extensive resurfacing was going on and it was fortunate I was there on a Saturday as I think the road was closed on weekdays.
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Re: NC500 Road Surface

Post by rhyds »

I'd not be surprised if a large part of the problem is vastly increased traffic thanks to more UK-based holidaying as well as a drastic increase in vehicle axle weights (i.e. more camper vans) that has caused some of the issue.

Otherwise, I found the highland roads no worse than those in Wales during my travels up there a few years ago, the only issue being when you got a combination of the particularly light coloured aggregate surface and worn white centre lines
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Re: NC500 Road Surface

Post by Starling »

The Highland council has 12% of Scotland's roads (in terms of length) but only 5% of Scotland's population.

I think road maintenance funding tends to get allocated by population, because the Highlands are so sparsely populated the Highlands council doesn't get enough money to maintain the massive road network. I could be wrong but I don't think they factor in the massive tourist numbers and large number of second home owners when deciding road maintenance budgets.

For the number of people who use the rural roads in the Highlands there is just not enough money given to maintain them properly because the area is so sparsely populated. The roads would get better if they factored in tourist traffic and second home owners when deciding how much money each area gets.

Also the Highland council gets accused of spending too much money around Inverness because that is where most of the people live. Not enough funding is allocated to the rural areas where hardly anyone lives but have big road networks with a lot of tourist traffic.
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rileyrob
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Re: NC500 Road Surface

Post by rileyrob »

Starling wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 16:07Also the Highland council gets accused of spending too much money around Inverness because that is where most of the people live. Not enough funding is allocated to the rural areas where hardly anyone lives but have big road networks with a lot of tourist traffic.
Yes, this is an interesting point. When we (Community Council) did a calculation a few years ago, based on some data obtained, lets say in a roundabout manner, we figured out that in the community where I live, the council tax paid was insufficient to staff the primary school. As Council Tax only accounts for ~25% (I think from memory) of HCs budget, we then worked out that the per capita spending in the community for the Schools, bin collections, home care, public toilets (before they cost 50p) and providing services in Fort William such as a Library and leisure centre, left nothing for Roads, parks and so on.
In essence, the good people of Inverness and Easter Ross subsidise the more rural areas of the Highlands by some margin, thanks to the lower costs of providing basic services in the more densely populated areas.

Now obviously, there was an element of 'back of fag packet' maths here, but it did shut up a few of the local moaners.
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Re: NC500 Road Surface

Post by Ruperts Trooper »

Starling wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 16:07 The Highland council has 12% of Scotland's roads (in terms of length) but only 5% of Scotland's population.

I think road maintenance funding tends to get allocated by population, because the Highlands are so sparsely populated the Highlands council doesn't get enough money to maintain the massive road network. I could be wrong but I don't think they factor in the massive tourist numbers and large number of second home owners when deciding road maintenance budgets.

For the number of people who use the rural roads in the Highlands there is just not enough money given to maintain them properly because the area is so sparsely populated. The roads would get better if they factored in tourist traffic and second home owners when deciding how much money each area gets.

Also the Highland council gets accused of spending too much money around Inverness because that is where most of the people live. Not enough funding is allocated to the rural areas where hardly anyone lives but have big road networks with a lot of tourist traffic.
The NC500 Tourist Route is a half-baked concept where investment in the necessary infrastructure has simply not been provided - the poor road quality just mirrors the lack of other facilities.
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Re: NC500 Road Surface

Post by KeithW »

Ruperts Trooper wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 19:53 The NC500 Tourist Route is a half-baked concept where investment in the necessary infrastructure has simply not been provided - the poor road quality just mirrors the lack of other facilities.
Well having driven the Alaskan highway in comparison the NC500 is stuffed to the brim with facilities and no bears or moose to worry about :)
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owen b
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Re: NC500 Road Surface

Post by owen b »

Ruperts Trooper wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 19:53
Starling wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 16:07 The Highland council has 12% of Scotland's roads (in terms of length) but only 5% of Scotland's population.

I think road maintenance funding tends to get allocated by population, because the Highlands are so sparsely populated the Highlands council doesn't get enough money to maintain the massive road network. I could be wrong but I don't think they factor in the massive tourist numbers and large number of second home owners when deciding road maintenance budgets.

For the number of people who use the rural roads in the Highlands there is just not enough money given to maintain them properly because the area is so sparsely populated. The roads would get better if they factored in tourist traffic and second home owners when deciding how much money each area gets.

Also the Highland council gets accused of spending too much money around Inverness because that is where most of the people live. Not enough funding is allocated to the rural areas where hardly anyone lives but have big road networks with a lot of tourist traffic.
The NC500 Tourist Route is a half-baked concept where investment in the necessary infrastructure has simply not been provided - the poor road quality just mirrors the lack of other facilities.
I think it's a victim of its own success. I don't suppose the authorities had any idea how successful it would be in attracting visitors and how it has become a well known holiday must do road trip. It seems to be attracting large numbers of campervanners, motorists, cyclists and motor bikers. Even at peak season traffic is low by English A road S2 standards, but put in the tourist mix of different types of vehicle driving at different speeds, the often twisty and undulating roads with long S1 stretches, and the unpredictable weather and I don't find it surprising that the strain on the roads is evident in some places. In general I am finding that B&Bs are getting pricier and booked up earlier in much of the Highlands in recent years and I suspect that for anyone who doesn't like camping or campervanning or hosteling, finding reasonably priced accommodation along the NC500 any time in spring or summer is increasingly problematic.
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Re: NC500 Road Surface

Post by clc »

KeithW wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 20:18
Ruperts Trooper wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 19:53 The NC500 Tourist Route is a half-baked concept where investment in the necessary infrastructure has simply not been provided - the poor road quality just mirrors the lack of other facilities.
Well having driven the Alaskan highway in comparison the NC500 is stuffed to the brim with facilities and no bears or moose to worry about :)
Great looking road though.
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Re: NC500 Road Surface

Post by hoagy_ytfc »

Definitely looking forward to taking the GR Yaris up there this summer!
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Re: NC500 Road Surface

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owen b wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 21:43 I think it's a victim of its own success. I don't suppose the authorities had any idea how successful it would be in attracting visitors and how it has become a well known holiday must do road trip. It seems to be attracting large numbers of campervanners, motorists, cyclists and motor bikers. Even at peak season traffic is low by English A road S2 standards, but put in the tourist mix of different types of vehicle driving at different speeds, the often twisty and undulating roads with long S1 stretches, and the unpredictable weather and I don't find it surprising that the strain on the roads is evident in some places. In general I am finding that B&Bs are getting pricier and booked up earlier in much of the Highlands in recent years and I suspect that for anyone who doesn't like camping or campervanning or hosteling, finding reasonably priced accommodation along the NC500 any time in spring or summer is increasingly problematic.
Certainly all that. I think the issues above are very important as well. Remote areas are more expensive to run per capita, and the cost rises as the population drops. If the roads are funded per capita, Highland has a population of just under 250,000 people. A not insignificant number, but Highland Council covers an area only about 10% smaller than Belgium. Belgium has 11 million inhabitants.
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Re: NC500 Road Surface

Post by WHBM »

rileyrob wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 09:08 Roads in the north of Scotland seem to be suffering from a strange failure this year, one which I haven't come across (certainly as any more than a localised problem) in the past. This is that they are developing large, shallow 'pot holes', where the top surface, to a depth of maybe 5-10mm, of the road fails over an area which can extend to several square metres while the lower portion of the same tarmac layer seems to survive. This causes wide rough patches, without the thunk-thunk of a pothole. I'd be interested to hear any theories on why this is happening.
Sounds a bit like snowplough damage. Have they bought any new kit ?
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Re: NC500 Road Surface

Post by jnty »

WHBM wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 00:03
rileyrob wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 09:08 Roads in the north of Scotland seem to be suffering from a strange failure this year, one which I haven't come across (certainly as any more than a localised problem) in the past. This is that they are developing large, shallow 'pot holes', where the top surface, to a depth of maybe 5-10mm, of the road fails over an area which can extend to several square metres while the lower portion of the same tarmac layer seems to survive. This causes wide rough patches, without the thunk-thunk of a pothole. I'd be interested to hear any theories on why this is happening.
Sounds a bit like snowplough damage. Have they bought any new kit ?
20/21 and I think 19/20 had extremely high snowfall across Scotland - wonder if it's still the legacy from that? 21/22 wasn't so bad but there was still some, and it started unusually early (with storm Arwen).
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Re: NC500 Road Surface

Post by rhyds »

hoagy_ytfc wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 23:36 Definitely looking forward to taking the GR Yaris up there this summer!
You'll have a right blast, however be sure to allow faster vehicles* to pass

*Faster Vehicles being old ladies in Subaru Foresters with no exhaust left going up the road at Warp Factor 6
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Re: NC500 Road Surface

Post by Starling »

rileyrob wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 16:37
Starling wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 16:07Also the Highland council gets accused of spending too much money around Inverness because that is where most of the people live. Not enough funding is allocated to the rural areas where hardly anyone lives but have big road networks with a lot of tourist traffic.
Yes, this is an interesting point. When we (Community Council) did a calculation a few years ago, based on some data obtained, lets say in a roundabout manner, we figured out that in the community where I live, the council tax paid was insufficient to staff the primary school. As Council Tax only accounts for ~25% (I think from memory) of HCs budget, we then worked out that the per capita spending in the community for the Schools, bin collections, home care, public toilets (before they cost 50p) and providing services in Fort William such as a Library and leisure centre, left nothing for Roads, parks and so on.
In essence, the good people of Inverness and Easter Ross subsidise the more rural areas of the Highlands by some margin, thanks to the lower costs of providing basic services in the more densely populated areas.

Now obviously, there was an element of 'back of fag packet' maths here, but it did shut up a few of the local moaners.
There are arguments that the NC500 and Isle of Skye etc. should get more funding for the roads because they attract so many tourists to Scotland. It is hard to quantify just how much taxes tourism on the NC500 and Skye generates, but before the pandemic tourism on Skye was estimated to generate £211m for the local economy, the NC500 will be a lot also.

The annual budget for the Highland council's entire road network is about £10m, so for the amount of money the rural areas generate in tourism the amount invested in road maintenance is nowhere near enough.

Also the Scottish government bodies like Highlands and Islands enterprise actively promote the NC500, they have encouraged all these heavy motorhomes to go to rural areas. The roads in these rural places have not been designed to handle the vast number of very heavy motorhomes that go there, these heavy vehicles are causing the roads to degrade at a much faster rate. The Scottish government agencies encourage them to go there but provide no extra funding to fix the damage caused by all the extra heavy traffic. Some people say they should put tourist tolls at various place on the roads around Highlands to pay for the infrastructure, could be a good idea but might be hard to implement.

In other countries they have specific government bodies that look after all roads, there is not a separate road department for every local authority, I think this way works much better. It might be better if BEAR Scotland maintained all the roads in Scotland and not just the main arterial ones. When you have local authorities responsible for maintaining roads it makes it too tempting for them to spend the money that should be spent on road on other things like housing, health or education etc. If there is a government body that is specifically for maintaining all roads then the money they get for roads is 'ringfenced' and can't be spent on other things.
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Re: NC500 Road Surface

Post by rileyrob »

The vast majority of Motor Homes on Highland Roads are not 'Heavy'. Most British registered vans will fall under 3.5Tonnes, with a lot sitting around the 2-2.5T level - especially the VW Transporters that are everywhere. I know there are some variations in licencing etc across Europe, but the majority I see on the roads seem to be of a similar size, there are certainly very few of the 5T+ Winnebago types. Your average car these days is well over 1.5T, and the pickups that are favoured by a lot of people living and working up here are around 2-2.5T.
Over half of the NC500 route has been rebuilt over the last 50 or so years (A9 / A835 / A837 / A894 and parts of the A832 and A836, much of it with EU funding) to accommodate modern traffic, notably the 44T artics that regularly go to Lochinver and Kinlochbervie ports, or up to Caithness on the A9, and so should be able to easily deal with vehicles under 3.5T, no matter how many of them.
Even in remoter areas, such as Applecross and NW Sutherland, the roads were accommodating 18 or 26T fuel tankers and delivery vehicles for decades before the NC500 was created, and with the growth of online shopping in the last decade, your average Asda or Tesco van weighs in at 3.5T when fully laden, not to mention the larger Argos etc lorries.

I am not disputing that the growth in traffic from the NC500 has had an impact on the condition of the roads, but I don't think it is right to blame it on camper vans when there are many other factors at play.
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