A55 Special Road: Was it ever intended to be a motorway?
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A55 Special Road: Was it ever intended to be a motorway?
But was there ever a plan for any of this road to have opened as a full motorway?
For example could part of A55 have been A55(M) or M51?
Re: A55 Special Road: Was it ever intended to be a motorway?
I really don't think it matters, we are where we are ... It is a great piece of road for moving traffic to and from North Wales, and when it is free running it is great. However there are many local problems along it's length that can quickly result in the main A55 carriageway slowing and even/often becoming blocked.
The 'special road' status results in the ridiculous signage that changes from NSL to 70mph at several point, though I would imagine that the vast majority of drivers don't even see that.
The A55 is not a motorway, and whether or not it was ever intended to be a motorway is irrelevant, it is what it is.
And given the Welsh government's attitude towards roads this will never change.
The 'special road' status results in the ridiculous signage that changes from NSL to 70mph at several point, though I would imagine that the vast majority of drivers don't even see that.
The A55 is not a motorway, and whether or not it was ever intended to be a motorway is irrelevant, it is what it is.
And given the Welsh government's attitude towards roads this will never change.
Re: A55 Special Road: Was it ever intended to be a motorway?
Not the A55, but I do wonder if the designers intended for the D3+4M A550 (as it was then - now A494) to become part of the M56 one day, assuming the English section was upgraded to a similar standard. The road as built, along with the cancelled Aston Hill plans, were to a very high standard with a ‘non-motorway’ local route alongside.
Owen Rudge
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Re: A55 Special Road: Was it ever intended to be a motorway?
I don't believe there was ever a plan to make any of the A55 a motorway.
Re: A55 Special Road: Was it ever intended to be a motorway?
I'm sorry to have to disagree with 'avtur'. but the A55 just has to be the biggest load of misery in North Wales. I have travelled this road many, many times since moving to Crewe in 1995, (my daughter attended Bangor University). As well as uni visits, there were many seaside trips when she was younger. Many times I often had to take the road via Mold and the B5381 via Betws-in-Rhos. Even quite recently returning home I have had to divert at St Asaph when returning from a day out. Certainly east of St Asaph the road is now totally unfit for its role as a traffic collector and distributor. It needs to be 3 lanes in each direction, and all flat junctions to be removed asap.
Relief only comes after Conway when it's basically fit for purpose. Once you're on Anglesey, the road is more than adequate as local and Irish traffic is minimal. Even holiday traffic disappears once you're over the Britannia bridge.
Of course we are now in the "All for Cycling" era when apparently if people cycle more it will make a huge dent in the vehicle-miles figures. OK, so let's have a look at the stats. A look at Cycling UK website this shows Miles cycled:
3.30 billion miles (usually)
5.03 billion miles (2020).
Total vehicle miles 2021, (powered vehicles) from the DfT website is: -
293 billion miles
So if if cycling increases tenfold on 2020, it would be about 50 billion miles thus, hopefully, reducing motor miles by around one fifth. OK, so a useful reduction, but how likely is it that government central and local can achieve such a large increase in cycle miles in our mostly wet/damp and cold climate ? There are also all those hilly towns and cities like Halifax, where selling bicycles would seem to be Mission Impossible !
Relief only comes after Conway when it's basically fit for purpose. Once you're on Anglesey, the road is more than adequate as local and Irish traffic is minimal. Even holiday traffic disappears once you're over the Britannia bridge.
Of course we are now in the "All for Cycling" era when apparently if people cycle more it will make a huge dent in the vehicle-miles figures. OK, so let's have a look at the stats. A look at Cycling UK website this shows Miles cycled:
3.30 billion miles (usually)
5.03 billion miles (2020).
Total vehicle miles 2021, (powered vehicles) from the DfT website is: -
293 billion miles
So if if cycling increases tenfold on 2020, it would be about 50 billion miles thus, hopefully, reducing motor miles by around one fifth. OK, so a useful reduction, but how likely is it that government central and local can achieve such a large increase in cycle miles in our mostly wet/damp and cold climate ? There are also all those hilly towns and cities like Halifax, where selling bicycles would seem to be Mission Impossible !
Re: A55 Special Road: Was it ever intended to be a motorway?
The A1 between Edinburgh and Dunbar is very similar to this stretch of A55. Given that some of the A1 is A1(M), I find it a little strange that the decision was made to open this section as a non-motorway special road, when it's effectively under motorway regulations and the only thing really distinguishing it from a motorway would be the lack of hard shoulders and some slightly tight junctions. I often consider it as an unofficial stretch of the A1(M) since it's under similar regulations. Most of the signs on the stretch are green, however the "NO" signs in its case are blue (on the A55 they are green).
For some reason most of the UK's non-motorway special roads I can think of seem to be in Scotland.
For some reason most of the UK's non-motorway special roads I can think of seem to be in Scotland.
RJDG14
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Re: A55 Special Road: Was it ever intended to be a motorway?
I've been a regular traveller from south Manchester into north Wales (Caernafon and Abersoch in particular) for 50 years. In the introduction my previous comments I did make a conditional statement about the A55, I totally recognise the various short comings at different places along its length, but on a good day it is a fine piece of road.
Re: A55 Special Road: Was it ever intended to be a motorway?
Thanks for that rant but I’m not sure how half of it relates to the A55.fras wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 00:30 I'm sorry to have to disagree with 'avtur'. but the A55 just has to be the biggest load of misery in North Wales. I have travelled this road many, many times since moving to Crewe in 1995, (my daughter attended Bangor University). As well as uni visits, there were many seaside trips when she was younger. Many times I often had to take the road via Mold and the B5381 via Betws-in-Rhos. Even quite recently returning home I have had to divert at St Asaph when returning from a day out. Certainly east of St Asaph the road is now totally unfit for its role as a traffic collector and distributor. It needs to be 3 lanes in each direction, and all flat junctions to be removed asap.
Relief only comes after Conway when it's basically fit for purpose. Once you're on Anglesey, the road is more than adequate as local and Irish traffic is minimal. Even holiday traffic disappears once you're over the Britannia bridge.
Of course we are now in the "All for Cycling" era when apparently if people cycle more it will make a huge dent in the vehicle-miles figures. OK, so let's have a look at the stats. A look at Cycling UK website this shows Miles cycled:
3.30 billion miles (usually)
5.03 billion miles (2020).
Total vehicle miles 2021, (powered vehicles) from the DfT website is: -
293 billion miles
So if if cycling increases tenfold on 2020, it would be about 50 billion miles thus, hopefully, reducing motor miles by around one fifth. OK, so a useful reduction, but how likely is it that government central and local can achieve such a large increase in cycle miles in our mostly wet/damp and cold climate ? There are also all those hilly towns and cities like Halifax, where selling bicycles would seem to be Mission Impossible !
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Re: A55 Special Road: Was it ever intended to be a motorway?
There seems to be a lot of confusion on this thread.
Motorways are a type of Special Road, not the other way around. They're not some sort of "partial motorway" or "not quite motorway" at all. Motorways are simply Special Roads that allow Class I and II traffic; and only those classes of traffic. Non-motorway Special Roads are exactly the same, but they allow different types of traffic which may or may not include Classes I and II traffic.
For example, the footpath alongside the Severn and Wye Bridges is also a Special Road, which allows (amongst others) Class VII and Class IX traffic - in other words, cyclists and pedestrians.
This means that there's a whole bunch of really simple answers here; combined with some sloppy legislation adding to confusion and a number of clueless people "in the industry".
Motorways are a type of Special Road, not the other way around. They're not some sort of "partial motorway" or "not quite motorway" at all. Motorways are simply Special Roads that allow Class I and II traffic; and only those classes of traffic. Non-motorway Special Roads are exactly the same, but they allow different types of traffic which may or may not include Classes I and II traffic.
For example, the footpath alongside the Severn and Wye Bridges is also a Special Road, which allows (amongst others) Class VII and Class IX traffic - in other words, cyclists and pedestrians.
This means that there's a whole bunch of really simple answers here; combined with some sloppy legislation adding to confusion and a number of clueless people "in the industry".
No, as there is a requirement for it to carry Class IV traffic as per the relevant Special Road Regulations SI. It therefore cannot be a motorway.
Again, the road allows additional classes of traffic so cannot be a motorway. It's under Special Road regulations and not those specificially listed as for motorways - for example, the motorway NSL does not apply to this road (or indeed any other non-motorway Special Road), and so its speed limit is specified within the relevant SI.RJDG14 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 05:15 The A1 between Edinburgh and Dunbar is very similar to this stretch of A55. Given that some of the A1 is A1(M), I find it a little strange that the decision was made to open this section as a non-motorway special road, when it's effectively under motorway regulations and the only thing really distinguishing it from a motorway would be the lack of hard shoulders and some slightly tight junctions. I often consider it as an unofficial stretch of the A1(M) since it's under similar regulations. Most of the signs on the stretch are green, however the "NO" signs in its case are blue (on the A55 they are green).
That's because the Transport Scotland are the national body in GB that understand the whole concept of a Special Road properly. National Highways Agency for England really don't have a clue; and the Welsh Government are in between.
Steven
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Re: A55 Special Road: Was it ever intended to be a motorway?
Apologies ! I left a bit out about the Welsh government under Drakeford now cancelling-off all road improvements, and imposing 20 mph limits throughout Wales, to force everybody onto bikes, thus denying any improvements to the A55 in the near or far future.Hdeng16 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 07:27Thanks for that rant but I’m not sure how half of it relates to the A55.fras wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 00:30 I'm sorry to have to disagree with 'avtur'. but the A55 just has to be the biggest load of misery in North Wales. I have travelled this road many, many times since moving to Crewe in 1995, (my daughter attended Bangor University). As well as uni visits, there were many seaside trips when she was younger. Many times I often had to take the road via Mold and the B5381 via Betws-in-Rhos. Even quite recently returning home I have had to divert at St Asaph when returning from a day out. Certainly east of St Asaph the road is now totally unfit for its role as a traffic collector and distributor. It needs to be 3 lanes in each direction, and all flat junctions to be removed asap.
Relief only comes after Conway when it's basically fit for purpose. Once you're on Anglesey, the road is more than adequate as local and Irish traffic is minimal. Even holiday traffic disappears once you're over the Britannia bridge.
Of course we are now in the "All for Cycling" era when apparently if people cycle more it will make a huge dent in the vehicle-miles figures. OK, so let's have a look at the stats. A look at Cycling UK website this shows Miles cycled:
3.30 billion miles (usually)
5.03 billion miles (2020).
Total vehicle miles 2021, (powered vehicles) from the DfT website is: -
293 billion miles
So if if cycling increases tenfold on 2020, it would be about 50 billion miles thus, hopefully, reducing motor miles by around one fifth. OK, so a useful reduction, but how likely is it that government central and local can achieve such a large increase in cycle miles in our mostly wet/damp and cold climate ? There are also all those hilly towns and cities like Halifax, where selling bicycles would seem to be Mission Impossible !
Re: A55 Special Road: Was it ever intended to be a motorway?
Talking of the A55 and cycling, can we take a moment to appreciate J17, where there's a pedestrians and cycles direction sign that, if you approach from Conwy Beach, looks to point onto the A55. In the meantime, the NSL and clearway signs are positioned so as to hide the no pedestrians/cycles signs...
Re: A55 Special Road: Was it ever intended to be a motorway?
I also have to disagree with avtur, but on a different point - I don’t think this question is irrelevant at all. We’re here to talk about all aspects of the road network, and the history of various road projects is part of that. I think it’s both relevant and interesting!
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: A55 Special Road: Was it ever intended to be a motorway?
I think the Severn Bridge footpath allows mopeds and low power motorcycles, along with pretty much every other type of motorway prohibited vehicle aside from L-car drivers and agricultural vehicles. In its case I believe it was given special road status to stop local utilities companies from being able to dig it up easily.Steven wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 08:34 There seems to be a lot of confusion on this thread.
Motorways are a type of Special Road, not the other way around. They're not some sort of "partial motorway" or "not quite motorway" at all. Motorways are simply Special Roads that allow Class I and II traffic; and only those classes of traffic. Non-motorway Special Roads are exactly the same, but they allow different types of traffic which may or may not include Classes I and II traffic.
For example, the footpath alongside the Severn and Wye Bridges is also a Special Road, which allows (amongst others) Class VII and Class IX traffic - in other words, cyclists and pedestrians.
This means that there's a whole bunch of really simple answers here; combined with some sloppy legislation adding to confusion and a number of clueless people "in the industry".
No, as there is a requirement for it to carry Class IV traffic as per the relevant Special Road Regulations SI. It therefore cannot be a motorway.
Again, the road allows additional classes of traffic so cannot be a motorway. It's under Special Road regulations and not those specificially listed as for motorways - for example, the motorway NSL does not apply to this road (or indeed any other non-motorway Special Road), and so its speed limit is specified within the relevant SI.RJDG14 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 05:15 The A1 between Edinburgh and Dunbar is very similar to this stretch of A55. Given that some of the A1 is A1(M), I find it a little strange that the decision was made to open this section as a non-motorway special road, when it's effectively under motorway regulations and the only thing really distinguishing it from a motorway would be the lack of hard shoulders and some slightly tight junctions. I often consider it as an unofficial stretch of the A1(M) since it's under similar regulations. Most of the signs on the stretch are green, however the "NO" signs in its case are blue (on the A55 they are green).
That's because the Transport Scotland are the national body in GB that understand the whole concept of a Special Road properly. National Highways Agency for England really don't have a clue; and the Welsh Government are in between.
I did see tractors using the special section of A1 in 2012, whereas these are prohibited on motorways.
RJDG14
See my Geograph profile here - http://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/74193
The Swindon Files - Swindon's modern history - http://rjdg14.altervista.org/swindon/
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If I break a policy designed only to protect me and nobody else, have I really broken anything?
See my Geograph profile here - http://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/74193
The Swindon Files - Swindon's modern history - http://rjdg14.altervista.org/swindon/
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If I break a policy designed only to protect me and nobody else, have I really broken anything?
Re: A55 Special Road: Was it ever intended to be a motorway?
Of course, in the case of the A1 outside Edinburgh, the road - legally speaking - would be a motorway per the 1995 regulations (as it only allows Class I and II traffic) but for these amendments. The same applies to the A90/A956 AWPR too. The contractors stuck up NSL signs on the AWPR then had to replace them with 70 signs shortly after opening!Steven wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 08:34 Again, the road allows additional classes of traffic so cannot be a motorway. It's under Special Road regulations and not those specificially listed as for motorways - for example, the motorway NSL does not apply to this road (or indeed any other non-motorway Special Road), and so its speed limit is specified within the relevant SI.
That said, I have seen tractors driving along the AWPR, despite the fact they are prohibited. I daresay the restrictions might have been clearer had they just stuck a blue motorway sign up instead.
Owen Rudge
http://www.owenrudge.net/
http://www.owenrudge.net/
Re: A55 Special Road: Was it ever intended to be a motorway?
Well, there's nothing to indicate that they are prohibited!orudge wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:00Of course, in the case of the A1 outside Edinburgh, the road - legally speaking - would be a motorway per the 1995 regulations (as it only allows Class I and II traffic) but for these amendments. The same applies to the A90/A956 AWPR too. The contractors stuck up NSL signs on the AWPR then had to replace them with 70 signs shortly after opening!Steven wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 08:34 Again, the road allows additional classes of traffic so cannot be a motorway. It's under Special Road regulations and not those specificially listed as for motorways - for example, the motorway NSL does not apply to this road (or indeed any other non-motorway Special Road), and so its speed limit is specified within the relevant SI.
That said, I have seen tractors driving along the AWPR, despite the fact they are prohibited. I daresay the restrictions might have been clearer had they just stuck a blue motorway sign up instead.
So the restriction is completely unenforceable. In the same vein, I once ended up cycling along the hard shoulder of the M40. It turned out I'd accidentally turned down the emergency access slip road at J7, rather than the intended turn onto the A40 150m further on. They'd left the gate propped open, which, being 3am, meant I couldn't see the non-reflective "authorised vehicles only" sign attached to said gate (my light didn't illuminate such things that are at 90 degrees to me).
The fact that it's a Special Road not allowing your class of traffic is irrelevant if there isn't the appropriate signage for those restrictions. Of course, it's much easier to have a nice blue motorway sign, but they can't even get that right!
This is all that's needed:
Re: A55 Special Road: Was it ever intended to be a motorway?
I remember when I was 7 that I saw a lot of 70 signs on motorways in Scotland and this seemed a little weird to me. I think in the case of Scotland, both motorways and other special roads have no speed limit by default, so it has to be signed separately. This is true for standalone special roads elsewhere in the UK but not for motorways, which have an automatic speed limit of 70mph unless otherwise stated.orudge wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:00Of course, in the case of the A1 outside Edinburgh, the road - legally speaking - would be a motorway per the 1995 regulations (as it only allows Class I and II traffic) but for these amendments. The same applies to the A90/A956 AWPR too. The contractors stuck up NSL signs on the AWPR then had to replace them with 70 signs shortly after opening!Steven wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 08:34 Again, the road allows additional classes of traffic so cannot be a motorway. It's under Special Road regulations and not those specificially listed as for motorways - for example, the motorway NSL does not apply to this road (or indeed any other non-motorway Special Road), and so its speed limit is specified within the relevant SI.
That said, I have seen tractors driving along the AWPR, despite the fact they are prohibited. I daresay the restrictions might have been clearer had they just stuck a blue motorway sign up instead.
Would the speed limit on the rare S2 stretches of motorway in England by default be 60mph like on a non-motorway stretch of S2? The former A6144(M) today has a 50mph limit but I think this was only introduced at the time it was downgraded - I think it was subject to whatever the NSL was before this.
RJDG14
See my Geograph profile here - http://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/74193
The Swindon Files - Swindon's modern history - http://rjdg14.altervista.org/swindon/
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If I break a policy designed only to protect me and nobody else, have I really broken anything?
See my Geograph profile here - http://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/74193
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If I break a policy designed only to protect me and nobody else, have I really broken anything?
Re: A55 Special Road: Was it ever intended to be a motorway?
There is nothing on that sign to prohibit L-drivers either, although I know in England that the law was recently changed to allow them on motorways under the supervision of a driving instructor. I think with regards to tractors that regardless of whether they are allowed or not, the prohibitions are likely less rigidly enforced on roads such as the AWPR, A1 east of Edinburgh and A55 around Colwyn Bay than what they are on standard motorways.solocle wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:22Well, there's nothing to indicate that they are prohibited!orudge wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:00Of course, in the case of the A1 outside Edinburgh, the road - legally speaking - would be a motorway per the 1995 regulations (as it only allows Class I and II traffic) but for these amendments. The same applies to the A90/A956 AWPR too. The contractors stuck up NSL signs on the AWPR then had to replace them with 70 signs shortly after opening!Steven wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 08:34 Again, the road allows additional classes of traffic so cannot be a motorway. It's under Special Road regulations and not those specificially listed as for motorways - for example, the motorway NSL does not apply to this road (or indeed any other non-motorway Special Road), and so its speed limit is specified within the relevant SI.
That said, I have seen tractors driving along the AWPR, despite the fact they are prohibited. I daresay the restrictions might have been clearer had they just stuck a blue motorway sign up instead.
So the restriction is completely unenforceable. In the same vein, I once ended up cycling along the hard shoulder of the M40. It turned out I'd accidentally turned down the emergency access slip road at J7, rather than the intended turn onto the A40 150m further on. They'd left the gate propped open, which, being 3am, meant I couldn't see the non-reflective "authorised vehicles only" sign attached to said gate (my light didn't illuminate such things that are at 90 degrees to me).
The fact that it's a Special Road not allowing your class of traffic is irrelevant if there isn't the appropriate signage for those restrictions. Of course, it's much easier to have a nice blue motorway sign, but they can't even get that right!
This is all that's needed:
One road that I see relatively little reason for most of it (with the exception of the part directly linking to the M5) to be a motorway these days would be the M50 - it has narrow hard shoulders that cease at most bridges, a LILO junction and feels noticeably more rural and has less traffic than nearly every other motorway in the UK. It's not particularly long either and takes only about 20 minutes to travel down. It's among the oldest motorways and I think was originally designed as a route between the West Midlands and South Wales prior to the opening of the M4 (now M48) Severn Bridge a few years later. Today it feels far more like a slightly neglected piece of a grade separated D2 trunk route in terms of standard and traffic.
RJDG14
See my Geograph profile here - http://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/74193
The Swindon Files - Swindon's modern history - http://rjdg14.altervista.org/swindon/
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If I break a policy designed only to protect me and nobody else, have I really broken anything?
See my Geograph profile here - http://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/74193
The Swindon Files - Swindon's modern history - http://rjdg14.altervista.org/swindon/
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If I break a policy designed only to protect me and nobody else, have I really broken anything?
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Re: A55 Special Road: Was it ever intended to be a motorway?
And Bristol! Crazily hilly. You'll never get anyone cycling there.fras wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 00:30 So if if cycling increases tenfold on 2020, it would be about 50 billion miles thus, hopefully, reducing motor miles by around one fifth. OK, so a useful reduction, but how likely is it that government central and local can achieve such a large increase in cycle miles in our mostly wet/damp and cold climate ? There are also all those hilly towns and cities like Halifax, where selling bicycles would seem to be Mission Impossible !
Oh wait.
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Re: A55 Special Road: Was it ever intended to be a motorway?
L-drivers aren't a class of traffic for the purposes of Special Roads, though. That restriction is instead in The Motorways Traffic (England and Wales) Regulations 1982 - As amended in 2018RJDG14 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:31 There is nothing on that sign to prohibit L-drivers either, although I know in England that the law was recently changed to allow them on motorways under the supervision of a driving instructor. I think with regards to tractors that regardless of whether they are allowed or not, the prohibitions are likely less rigidly enforced on roads such as the AWPR, A1 east of Edinburgh and A55 around Colwyn Bay than what they are on standard motorways.
One road that I see relatively little reason for most of it (with the exception of the part directly linking to the M5) to be a motorway these days would be the M50 - it has narrow hard shoulders that cease at most bridges, a LILO junction and feels noticeably more rural and has less traffic than nearly every other motorway in the UK. It's not particularly long either and takes only about 20 minutes to travel down. It's among the oldest motorways and I think was originally designed as a route between the West Midlands and South Wales prior to the opening of the M4 (now M48) Severn Bridge a few years later. Today it feels far more like a slightly neglected piece of a grade separated D2 trunk route in terms of standard and traffic.
So it's entirely legitimate for learners to use such roads.
Re: A55 Special Road: Was it ever intended to be a motorway?
NSL is specified separately in law for motorways and all purpose roads, so the speed limit distinction between single and dual carriageway doesn’t exist on motorways, nor does the distinction between lit and unlit roads. All roads under motorway regulations have a limit of 70mph unless specified otherwise.RJDG14 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:24Would the speed limit on the rare S2 stretches of motorway in England by default be 60mph like on a non-motorway stretch of S2? The former A6144(M) today has a 50mph limit but I think this was only introduced at the time it was downgraded - I think it was subject to whatever the NSL was before this.
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk