Was Manchester Outer Ring Road going to be M66?

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gepree68
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Was Manchester Outer Ring Road going to be M66?

Post by gepree68 »

Will the Minister state what representations he has had about the
proposed extension of the M66 motorway, the one which will go
round the outer ring road of Manchester—
In Parliament on 1978-11-29 someone asks the above question about M66 in Manchester.

Mr Speaker interrupts him, so unfortunately we never find out the answer.

But does the question suggest M66 was the intended number for the Manchester Outer Ring Road?
  • (1) Crossing M63 (at today's M60 J25)
  • (2) Going south to today's A555
  • (3) Going west along today's A555
  • (4) Crossing M56 J5
  • (5) Finally rejoining M63 (between today's M60 J5 and J6)
2022-08-16 Manchester.png
Last edited by gepree68 on Tue Aug 16, 2022 16:33, edited 15 times in total.
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Re: Was Manchester Outer Ring Road going to be M66?

Post by Chris Bertram »

gepree68 wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:55
Will the Minister state what representations he has had about the
proposed extension of the M66 motorway, the one which will go
round the outer ring road of Manchester—
In Parliament on 1978-11-29 someone asks the above question about M66 in Manchester.

Mr. Speaker interrupts him, so unfortunately we never find out the answer.

But does the question suggest M66 was the intended number for the Manchester Outer Ring Road,
crossing M63, M56 and then joining M63 again?
2022-08-16 Manchester.png
M60 J18-19 was originally numbered M66 (J4-5), as was J24-25 (as J11-12), and the section in between was shown as a projected line initially as M66, so Plan A was for this to be the number for the eastern flank of the Ring Road. However by the time that opened in 2000 the decision had been made to give the Ring Road a single number, so it opened as M60 and the junction numbers were adjusted, with J1 being at Stockport and then increasing clockwise, so as to cause minimal change on the section of M62 being absorbed into the scheme.

See also https://www.roads.org.uk/motorway/m66/ and ... oh hang on, I was going to link to Pathetic Motorways, but apparently M66 isn't pathetic enough, despite having only 5 junctions, one of them unnumbered. Steven, has M66 ever been considered for a PM entry?
Last edited by Chris Bertram on Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:24, edited 1 time in total.
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From the SABRE Wiki: M66 :


The M66 currently forms an easterly bypass of Bury. It has been truncated from its originally planned length southwards to Stockport.


The section of now M60 running between M67 and M63, and the section between Simister and A576 both previously held the M66 number before being renumbered as part of M60 in 1998. The section between Middleton and Denton, although planned as M66, opened as M60 in 2000.

The section of former M66 to the south of

... Read More
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Re: Was Manchester Outer Ring Road going to be M66?

Post by Bryn666 »

The M66 was always going to be Edenfield to Bredbury after 1975 with the extension south towards Hazel Grove going by various different numbers.

The Middleton Link opened as M68 but was never signed on the ground, it changed to be part of the M66 when the northwards extension was built. Given the M66 entered the motorway programme relatively late as the corridor in the 1949 plan was always an A road (hence why the M66 ends where it does), hence the Edenfield Bypass and TOTSO at Bent Gate where the original 1949 line to Burnley was abandoned as a project it strikes me as extremely unlikely the sometime never southern extension past the airport along today's A555 was ever planned as M66.
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Re: Was Manchester Outer Ring Road going to be M66?

Post by Steven »

Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:16 See also https://www.roads.org.uk/motorway/m66/ and ... oh hang on, I was going to link to Pathetic Motorways, but apparently M66 isn't pathetic enough, despite having only 5 junctions, one of them unnumbered. Steven, has M66 ever been considered for a PM entry?
Not M66 per se, but something more relevant and something else :wink:

The short form of the answer is no, no number was ever formally allocated to the original Manchester ORR southern section during its time as a motorway project.
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Re: Was Manchester Outer Ring Road going to be M66?

Post by gepree68 »

Bryn666 wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:21 The M66 was always going to be Edenfield to Bredbury after 1975 with the extension south towards Hazel Grove going by various different numbers.
For the extension from Bredbury to Hazel Grove, do we know what these different numbers are? One starting with "M6_" and another being A6(M)?

My guess is that A6(M) was a temporary number and that the whole road (Bredbury - Hazel Grove - Northern Moor) would
either have been called (say) M68, or would have become an extension of M66.
2022-08-16 Stockport.png
Last edited by gepree68 on Tue Aug 16, 2022 16:36, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Was Manchester Outer Ring Road going to be M66?

Post by wrinkly »

I can't now remember exactly what I knew or believed when, but I was aware of the M66 number before M68.

As for the A6(M), that originally arose in a separate context from the Outer Ring Road. In the late 60s or early 70s Stockport CBC promoted a Stockport north-south bypass A6(M) on a highly urban route west of the town centre. The DfT's predecessor took over the scheme as a trunk road and in 1973 held a public consultation into four routes. One was the CBC's route, another was somewhat similar to it, and another was along the Midland railway line. All these three were west of the town centre. The already-long-proposed ORR route, east of the town centre, was thrown in as a fourth option (known as the blue route) and was the one chosen.
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Re: Was Manchester Outer Ring Road going to be M66?

Post by Rillington »

Bryn666 wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:21 The M66 was always going to be Edenfield to Bredbury after 1975 with the extension south towards Hazel Grove going by various different numbers.

The Middleton Link opened as M68 but was never signed on the ground, it changed to be part of the M66 when the northwards extension was built. Given the M66 entered the motorway programme relatively late as the corridor in the 1949 plan was always an A road (hence why the M66 ends where it does), hence the Edenfield Bypass and TOTSO at Bent Gate where the original 1949 line to Burnley was abandoned as a project it strikes me as extremely unlikely the sometime never southern extension past the airport along today's A555 was ever planned as M66.
It would have made sense for the M66 to have carried on to Bredbury and then on to Hazel Grove.

Talking of the latter extension, how close did Bredbury to Havel Grove get to being built?.
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Re: Was Manchester Outer Ring Road going to be M66?

Post by vlad »

I don't think this gives any information that hasn't already been stated in this thread.

However, my copy of the Manchester A-Z (dated 1992 - it's the one that marks the B9999 in Bolton) shows the M66 under construction, due to open 1996 apparently, between junctions 5 and 11 (present M60 J19-24), then the A6(M) heading south from M66 J12 (M60 J25) along a proposed route west of Romiley and east of Offerton; it crossed the A6 at a roundabout GSJ on Hazel Grove golf course and then lost motorway status.

The road continues almost all the way to the M56 along pretty much the present route of the A555 although it isn't given a number; it's all shown as proposed except for the bit between the A34 (present B5358) and A5102 which is due to open mid-1994.
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Re: Was Manchester Outer Ring Road going to be M66?

Post by Was92now625 »

Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:16
M60 J18-19 was originally numbered M66 (J4-5), as was J24-25 (as J11-12), and the section in between was shown as a projected line initially as M66, so Plan A was for this to be the number for the eastern flank of the Ring Road. However by the time that opened in 2000 the decision had been made to give the Ring Road a single number, so it opened as M60 and the junction numbers were adjusted, with J1 being at Stockport and then increasing clockwise, so as to cause minimal change on the section of M62 being absorbed into the scheme.
And also retaining Junction 7 without renumbering. Of course, there has been enough other change near there that there may not have been great advantage.

From the SABRE Wiki: M66 :


The M66 currently forms an easterly bypass of Bury. It has been truncated from its originally planned length southwards to Stockport.


The section of now M60 running between M67 and M63, and the section between Simister and A576 both previously held the M66 number before being renumbered as part of M60 in 1998. The section between Middleton and Denton, although planned as M66, opened as M60 in 2000.

The section of former M66 to the south of

... Read More
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Re: Was Manchester Outer Ring Road going to be M66?

Post by RichardA626 »

vlad wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 20:38 I don't think this gives any information that hasn't already been stated in this thread.

However, my copy of the Manchester A-Z (dated 1992 - it's the one that marks the B9999 in Bolton) shows the M66 under construction, due to open 1996 apparently, between junctions 5 and 11 (present M60 J19-24), then the A6(M) heading south from M66 J12 (M60 J25) along a proposed route west of Romiley and east of Offerton; it crossed the A6 at a roundabout GSJ on Hazel Grove golf course and then lost motorway status.

The road continues almost all the way to the M56 along pretty much the present route of the A555 although it isn't given a number; it's all shown as proposed except for the bit between the A34 (present B5358) and A5102 which is due to open mid-1994.
I think I've got a the copy of the same edition.
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Re: Was Manchester Outer Ring Road going to be M66?

Post by stu531 »

I always think it’s cool that, not only do the junction numbers of the M60 line up with those of the M62, but arguably that junction 1 at Stockport is closest to London, and it starts the first junction point in the A-road zone 6 (being just west of the A6).
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Re: Was Manchester Outer Ring Road going to be M66?

Post by Steven »

stu531 wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 08:10 I always think it’s cool that, not only do the junction numbers of the M60 line up with those of the M62, but arguably that junction 1 at Stockport is closest to London, and it starts the first junction point in the A-road zone 6 (being just west of the A6).
The first is deliberate - lining up with the M62 junctions was the plan; so J1 being in Stockport is just a consequence of counting back from there.
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Re: Was Manchester Outer Ring Road going to be M66?

Post by Bryn666 »

Steven wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 08:22
stu531 wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 08:10 I always think it’s cool that, not only do the junction numbers of the M60 line up with those of the M62, but arguably that junction 1 at Stockport is closest to London, and it starts the first junction point in the A-road zone 6 (being just west of the A6).
The first is deliberate - lining up with the M62 junctions was the plan; so J1 being in Stockport is just a consequence of counting back from there.
People also forget they actually tidied up the M62 junctions, shuffling J14A (for the A580) out of the deck and renumbering the Swinton complex as 14/15 given the original J15 for the M601 was no longer needed.

The early days of the M60 had all the existing signs hastily coverplated to read M60 and the old junction numbers crossed out with a red line. The re-signing project didn't complete until late 1999 just in time for the final section to open in 2000.

Interestingly the chopstick signs at the Broadway junction are coverplated - which seems odd as it was already known the number was changing by the time they'd have been ordered.
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Re: Was Manchester Outer Ring Road going to be M66?

Post by Helvellyn »

Steven wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 08:22
stu531 wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 08:10 I always think it’s cool that, not only do the junction numbers of the M60 line up with those of the M62, but arguably that junction 1 at Stockport is closest to London, and it starts the first junction point in the A-road zone 6 (being just west of the A6).
The first is deliberate - lining up with the M62 junctions was the plan; so J1 being in Stockport is just a consequence of counting back from there.
Got to agree though that it's neat that that ended up with a reasonably logical choice for J1, even if it was by coincidence.
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Re: Was Manchester Outer Ring Road going to be M66?

Post by wallmeerkat »

As an aside to the M60/M62 thing, I think it may have confused Doves band who recorded a song as M62 song, supposedly under a flyover.
"M62 Song" is credited as being recorded under a flyover of the M62 motorway in Northenden. However, in a 2022 interview on the XS Long Player Podcast with Jim Salveson, Andy Williams revealed that the song was actually recorded under the M60 Motorway flyover but the band "got the name wrong" also adding that 'M62 Song' Sounds better anyway"
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Re: Was Manchester Outer Ring Road going to be M66?

Post by Bryn666 »

wallmeerkat wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:57 As an aside to the M60/M62 thing, I think it may have confused Doves band who recorded a song as M62 song, supposedly under a flyover.
"M62 Song" is credited as being recorded under a flyover of the M62 motorway in Northenden. However, in a 2022 interview on the XS Long Player Podcast with Jim Salveson, Andy Williams revealed that the song was actually recorded under the M60 Motorway flyover but the band "got the name wrong" also adding that 'M62 Song' Sounds better anyway"
If it was in Northenden it would've originally been the M63 there anyway :lol:
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Re: Was Manchester Outer Ring Road going to be M66?

Post by the cheesecake man »

Helvellyn wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:45 Got to agree though that it's neat that that ended up with a reasonably logical choice for J1, even if it was by coincidence.
Also Stockport viaduct and pyramid are the most obvious landmarks for the "end", but sadly it is just a happy coincidence.
Rillington wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 14:47 It would have made sense for the M66 to have carried on to Bredbury...
Indeed M66 did reach Bredbury for a while (with a gap north of Denton).
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Re: Was Manchester Outer Ring Road going to be M66?

Post by Bryn666 »

the cheesecake man wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 13:38
Helvellyn wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:45 Got to agree though that it's neat that that ended up with a reasonably logical choice for J1, even if it was by coincidence.
Also Stockport viaduct and pyramid are the most obvious landmarks for the "end", but sadly it is just a happy coincidence.
Rillington wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 14:47 It would have made sense for the M66 to have carried on to Bredbury...
Indeed M66 did reach Bredbury for a while (with a gap north of Denton).
There's still a sign hanging on in Ashton pointing to the M66 - https://goo.gl/maps/F4JYeoTrKmDknD348
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Re: Was Manchester Outer Ring Road going to be M66?

Post by stu531 »

Bryn666 wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 14:41
There's still a sign hanging on in Ashton pointing to the M66 - https://goo.gl/maps/F4JYeoTrKmDknD348
Not the only thing wrong with that sign! A607? And Wakefield feels a bit random...
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Re: Was Manchester Outer Ring Road going to be M66?

Post by Burwellian »

Bryn666 wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 14:41 There's still a sign hanging on in Ashton pointing to the M66 - https://goo.gl/maps/F4JYeoTrKmDknD348
There's also still an M63 sign in Wilmslow: https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3280399 ... 384!8i8192
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