East Leeds Orbital Route

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NICK 647063
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

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Rillington wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 16:44
c2R wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 23:31
I suspect that a long term goal will be the widening of the A64 between the two, and therefore the developers of the housing estate were made to build their junction with this in mind. Similarly, it has been done with the ELOR junction (to avoid needing to rebuild it later). One day I'm sure that A64 here will be dualled too - probably using additional developer money from the construction of more car dependent housing in the area.
Any improvements to the A64 between Whinmoor and Bramham must be welcomed. I've always held the view this stretch should be dualled.
It was proposed back in the 80’s but then the M1 got extended and took a fair bit of traffic off the A64, but with traffic growth and the growth of Leeds traffic is back up again, also with all the east leeds development and ever expanding Leeds city centre the A64 is taking more and more traffic, it really should become a future scheme.
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stu531
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

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Rillington wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 16:44
Any improvements to the A64 between Whinmoor and Bramham must be welcomed. I've always held the view this stretch should be dualled.
It should, as you can imagine the new road will 'scoop up' traffic that's going to be heading north on the A1, and in that respect it may be a better alternative to the A58.

In the same respect, and further back on this thread, it may have the same effect on A1 southbound traffic - and hence making Hook Moor proper free flow (ie M1 N -> A1 S & A1 N -> M1 S traffic flows) makes sense, so as to create a 'Garforth bypass'.
NICK 647063
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

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stu531 wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 10:24
Rillington wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 16:44
Any improvements to the A64 between Whinmoor and Bramham must be welcomed. I've always held the view this stretch should be dualled.
It should, as you can imagine the new road will 'scoop up' traffic that's going to be heading north on the A1, and in that respect it may be a better alternative to the A58.

In the same respect, and further back on this thread, it may have the same effect on A1 southbound traffic - and hence making Hook Moor proper free flow (ie M1 N -> A1 S & A1 N -> M1 S traffic flows) makes sense, so as to create a 'Garforth bypass'.
Think that’s the issue it currently takes traffic that used to be on the A58 but would be even more attractive now using the A64.

The other thing is the last point you make, I’ve noticed quite a bit of traffic follows the A64 to take the A1(M) south, obviously now all A1(M) traffic is actually signed via the A64, as you say it’s to avoid pushing traffic through Garforth, plus the roundabout mess at The Springs, while the M1 J43 should have full movement I don’t think it would ever happen.

The problem is so many extra functions keep getting put on the A64, it’s now taking the A58 traffic, it’s going to take more traffic to avoid the A63 through Garforth and then you have the huge east leeds expansion, it’s already showing a minimum 35% increase when the ELOR opens, all models showed this, really going to be a weak link.
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

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Went down past The Springs today and noticed all the signage on the MLLR section is now replaced ready for the ELOR to open, but it’s all non primary, even approaching from Manston Lane the sign shows left green primary patch onto new road right black on white non primary to M1 and Selby A63, seems strange especially given they have put the A58 as primary then got this wrong.
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

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NICK 647063 wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 20:52 Went down past The Springs today and noticed all the signage on the MLLR section is now replaced ready for the ELOR to open, but it’s all non primary, even approaching from Manston Lane the sign shows left green primary patch onto new road right black on white non primary to M1 and Selby A63, seems strange especially given they have put the A58 as primary then got this wrong.
Leeds City Council just aren’t very good at road signs, unfortunately.
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

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NICK 647063 wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 20:52 Went down past The Springs today and noticed all the signage on the MLLR section is now replaced ready for the ELOR to open, but it’s all non primary, even approaching from Manston Lane the sign shows left green primary patch onto new road right black on white non primary to M1 and Selby A63, seems strange especially given they have put the A58 as primary then got this wrong.
From what you saw, were there any route confirmation signs?
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

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Nothing at all and that needs sorting as the current ring road has them all along it.
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

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The new A6120 ring road ELOR opened this morning in a low key affair, the council wanted it opened before leeds festival as it’s the A64 diversion route, so no official opening ceremony as this would delay things, just need the signage sorting at the M1 J46 end as it’s not easy to get on it if you don’t know.
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c2R
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

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NICK 647063 wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:06 The new A6120 ring road ELOR opened this morning in a low key affair, the council wanted it opened before leeds festival as it’s the A64 diversion route, so no official opening ceremony as this would delay things, just need the signage sorting at the M1 J46 end as it’s not easy to get on it if you don’t know.
They're also still doing roadworks all over the place - down at the Austhorpe Dumbbell widening of the circulatory carriageways and approaches was still going on last Friday, and NMU provisions are still only half complete - it's a bit of a mess really.... that said, I'm impressed with how quickly they got the bit just north of the MLLR surfaced and completed these last few months.
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wrinkly
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

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Very little traffic at 17:30 today.
NICK 647063
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

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wrinkly wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 18:38 Very little traffic at 17:30 today.
The positive thing today was the old ring road in Seacroft didn’t have any queues compared to just last week and even yesterday.
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stu531
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

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Used it last night to get back from east Leeds to Harrogate. It's good, although you can't help but thinking that not to GSJ it, is it a bit of a wasted opportunity - at least for the A64 junction.

Given I was en route to Harrogate, the cut-through involves using the Coal Road through Shadwell and Wyke to the north of the ELOR - which I suspect is going to get very busy, especially since Google Maps (and the like) will suggest it as the fastest route to/from the south.
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

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I watched a video of someone driving the route and it seems as though route confirmation signs have not been included.
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stu531
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

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Someone's done a nice job of updating Open Street Map, I see.
NICK 647063
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

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Closed this morning along with the A64 for a serious RTC at that roundabout, 7 hour closure, somebody seriously injured, apparently a 3 vehicle accident at the same place last night and numerous near misses in 4 days, LCC are now reviewing the junction.
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

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NICK 647063 wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 22:33 Closed this morning along with the A64 for a serious RTC at that roundabout, 7 hour closure, somebody seriously injured, apparently a 3 vehicle accident at the same place last night and numerous near misses in 4 days, LCC are now reviewing the junction.
This would be the hamburger? When will people get it into their skulls that these are an objectively terrible choice for a junction design, especially one built from scratch!
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c2R
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

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Bryn666 wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 23:42
NICK 647063 wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 22:33 Closed this morning along with the A64 for a serious RTC at that roundabout, 7 hour closure, somebody seriously injured, apparently a 3 vehicle accident at the same place last night and numerous near misses in 4 days, LCC are now reviewing the junction.
This would be the hamburger? When will people get it into their skulls that these are an objectively terrible choice for a junction design, especially one built from scratch!
Yes, indeed. I drove across it last week just before opening of elor. Something about it doesn't seem right, maybe it's to do with the forward visibility because it's so big. Of course signs weren't fully in place and there was still some ttm... But you're right, yes, it's a terrible choice for such an important and busy junction. Perhaps though there's space to grade separate it one day when it's overloaded because of all the new houses and sheds that will appear around it. Unlike at Austhorpe, where I'm not sure what the eventual plan is...
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

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Search for ‘YappApp’ on Facebook and search the page for ELOR, some drone footage of the junction (and accident).

I haven’t driven this yet, and it seems you guys think there might be something off with it… but despite the junction itself being a traffic light mess, it does still conform. I mean… it’s a mass of traffic lights but it’s still ‘just’ a large traffic light junction it is not?

From the footage I mentioned, and the damage shown, it seems there was a fair amount of speed involved too…
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

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Drove the full length and back yesterday afternoon whilst the missus was at the dentist.

Away from the junctions it seems a decent enough D2, looks to be plenty of footpaths and cycleways along and around it, might have to explore on the bike at some point. I like the rusted metal looking pedestrian over bridges, think I counted 3, which has a kind of style to them and definitely make the one at Thorpe Park/The Springs built years look rubbish, especially as that one is clearly just a standard concrete bridge designed for a road given it's width etc.

The main issues are indeed the junctions, some of the roundabouts aren't too bad but the A64 hamburger is just a mess and the A58 roundabout seems like it'll get overloaded easily.

Signs along the new section are fine from what I could see but the sooner the better that the ones around the Thorpe Park/The Springs are replaced to show the D2 there is now part of the ring road and primary. Unfortunately knowing Leeds City Council and their poor job at doing signs I'm not holding my breath....

Until it fills up with traffic from all the new housing estates it'll be a big improvement over the old ring road through Cross Gates & Seacroft, especially the S2 sections.
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Chris5156
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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

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I had a go on this on Thursday morning and was quite pleasantly surprised. It's a generally good suburban dual carriageway with poor junctions - par for the course, I suppose. The majority of junctions are simple roundabouts, but the A58 roundabout is signalised from the outset, and the A64 is a horrible oversized hamburger contraption of the type that I am liable to complain about at length. There's also a signalised T-junction on the length between The Springs and Manston Lane - surely avoidable - and the M1 roundabouts are now being signalised too.

In between the junctions, though, it's well aligned and has some good long runs between junctions that also avoid level crossings for NMUs. The 50 limit was not being well observed and indeed it does seem to invite rather higher speeds at the moment.

It's very apparent that the ELOR is west of Manston Lane, and east of there the "Manston Lane Link Road" is a very separate road scheme that appears to have been designed entirely separately. The MLLR has the aforementioned signalised T-junction, has signalised pedestrian crossings across the mainline on the approaches to roundabouts, has a bridge just west of The Springs that is downright ugly compared to the rather nice ones on the ELOR (which come complete with feature lighting, so pleased are its designers with their curves), etc. The MLLR feels like a Tesco Value prelude to the new road as a result.

I was pleasantly surprised to see that there is a broad and well aligned shared use path running alongside the ELOR throughout - presumably its design predates current best practice by a year or two, otherwise it would be a proper cycle path with separate footpath, but it still looked very reasonable. Lots of land on the north side of the ELOR is being landscaped into parkland, with ponds, paths, benches, areas of feature planting, etc, which currently only separates the road from fields but will presumably form a pleasant and scenic buffer between the road and the new housing estates.

If you're going to build a new road to open up development land then this does at least look like a much better outcome than most - cf. Wakefield's narrow 30mph eastern bypass. It is a reasonably fast road that will remain a vast improvement over the current Ring Road even when surrounded by houses, because the places those new estates will connect to it are strictly limited, and in between it has decent capacity and allows you to make good progress.

It's a huge shame there was no money for better junctions. The landscaping might provide enough room for future improvements but I wouldn't ever hold my breath for GSJs.
Achmelvic wrote: Sat Aug 27, 2022 08:31Signs along the new section are fine from what I could see but the sooner the better that the ones around the Thorpe Park/The Springs are replaced to show the D2 there is now part of the ring road and primary. Unfortunately knowing Leeds City Council and their poor job at doing signs I'm not holding my breath....
These are an abomination. Westbound on the MLLR is a brand new black and white/non-primary sign for the roundabout, showing the arm leading up to the roundabout as unclassified, the arms left and right as unclassified, and the road ahead as a primary route numbered A6120. It's a sign made by someone focussed entirely on project boundaries and not at all on the result of those projects when complete. I hope the MLLR gets all its signs replaced very soon to match the ELOR, which - unusually for LCC - has decent signage throughout without any obvious design mistakes. Presumably the consultants who oversaw the project did the signs themselves rather than LCC's own highways department.
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