User talk:Midletonperson

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New place articles

Hi there,

Over the last few weeks, you've been working adding a collection of new Irish places to the SABRE Wiki. However, there is guidance in place as to how and which places need to be added to the SABRE Wiki - and primarily which places need to have pages on the SABRE Wiki. We're not Wikipedia, and places that are not on the official list of Terminal Destinations or Intermediate Destinations are not automatically relevant to us.

Both myself and C2R have attempted to show you the guidance in place, but unfortunately you don't appear to have read this guidance, and are continuing to add small towns with no major significance to the road network in Ireland; and only providing a basic three sentence outline to show why they should be here. In addition to that, you are unfortunately breaking lots of things by copying irrelevant categories; and are not creating all of the other requirements to make the Wiki hang together. This is therefore being a time-sink for the Wiki admins, and taking up lots of time in doing this clean-up work for places that, quite frankly, we probably do not require pages for.

As has been mentioned previously to you, Help:Wiki Guides/Places has a bunch of valuable information for anyone creating Place pages, and includes this guidance:

If a place is the focus of the road network over a significant area (such as Ludlow), then it should probably have an article. If a place is important enough to be a former County Borough (such as Smethwick), then it should probably have an article. If a place does not fall into either of those two categories, then it basically comes down to a simple question: Can I write something interesting about the town's road network that's more than just a table of roads, or not? The answer to that should tell you whether the article should exist or not.

Right now, all of the articles you're creating are basically just a table of roads, and therefore fall into the "should not exist" category, unless there's a lot more to say about them.

Have a think about what can be added to them - we have a collection of historic Irish mapping on SABRE Maps, so perhaps use them and extracts from SABRE Maps (instructions on how to do so are in the Wiki Guide) to help talk about the history of each town's road network a little more rather than trying to create pages for what are, quite frankly, pretty insignificant places as far as the road network is concerned - Rathkeale for example is basically a medium sized village with a population of less than 2,000; it isn't a particular focus of the road network over a large are; and doesn't seem to have a particularly interesting roads history - simply being bypassed by a major route (the N21 in this case) isn't particularly significant when there are literally thousands of places in the same situation. Tonight's addition of Manorhamilton, an even smaller place, continues that.

We're here to help, and we're happy to help; but people need to meet us half-way by reading and understanding the guidance; and taking note of input given by other people.

To make sure you've read this, I've temporarily locked your ability to edit anything other than your own user page and this page. Please respond below to say that you've read this, and have read and understood the Wiki Guide, and your lock will be lifted. If you have questions, then please ask them here and we'll answer them to the best of our ability. Steven (talk) 17:52, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

I understand. User:Midletonperson

I've also noticed that you've been adding images to the SABRE Wiki. These images take up disk space that SABRE needs to pay for, so please ensure that they are categorised correctly, and are of something relevant to the road network. For example, File:Geograph-633644-by-Harold-Strong.jpg is just an image of a shopping outlet and not a road, and so is irrelevant to the SABRE Wiki.

Please confirm here once you're fully read the relevant Places Wiki Guide, and not just the note that's been left for you here. Steven (talk) 17:59, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

I have read the Wiki Guide and understand the things like that SABRE are not like Wikipedia and more. User:MidletonPerson

OK, your editing block has now been lifted again. Please take note of the guidance, and reach out to us either myself or C2R (as you have been doing) if you have questions before making changes. Steven (talk) 18:45, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Hello again. I see that you've created some new Place articles, but they are of the same style as before and still fall foul of the guidance that's been pointed out to you, specifically the section in the yellow box above where there's nothing more to a page other than a couple of sentences that don't tell me why the place is interesting from a roads point of view, and so that Place article should not exist if it's not on the official list of Terminal or Intermediate Destinations. I would suggest that rather than continuing to add very basic Place articles that don't add value that instead you focus on one or two places in your local area and tell us all about why they're interesting from a roads point of view. We're not expecting that every place should have a page as large as that of Dublin (which is a clear four-star article) or Wolverhampton (which is a five-star article).
As has been pointed out to you, there's a lot of examples and ideas within Help:Wiki Guides/Places for you to take advantage of. Less, but better Place articles are better than more bad ones. Steven (talk) 21:02, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Also note that we're not wikipedia. Rosscarbery may have very nice beaches, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're relevant to the roads of the area. C2r (talk) 08:21, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
I've deleted your recent addition of Enniskeen - The content appears to have been copied directly from Wikipedia, which would be a violation of their copyright. The place is also not prticularly notable, having a population of 697 (according to wikipedia), and I can't particularly see any road features of interest. C2r (talk) 08:26, 20 November 2021 (UTC)


Redirects are usually put there for a reason - some, like Rosslare > Rosslare Harbour because they link a place's common use to the official name. When you alter these, you therefore need to look at the "what links here" to ensure that the pages that previously used the redirect are now using the page name in the new location. I've corrected this for Rosslare Harbour.

I've also reverted your attempted deletion of Ballingeary - while the English name is no longer in official use, it is present on old maps and is in use by English speakers, both within the community and in the wider public; it's not therefore helpful to delete the redirect. C2r (talk) 08:21, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

More tiny places

For what reason have you added the latest two small villages of Ballyvourney and Ballydesmond? They both appear to be tiny places with no specifically interesting road features; and both pages fall foul of the guidance that you've been shown several times now of:

If a place is the focus of the road network over a significant area (such as Ludlow), then it should probably have an article. If a place is important enough to be a former County Borough (such as Smethwick), then it should probably have an article. If a place does not fall into either of those two categories, then it basically comes down to a simple question: Can I write something interesting about the town's road network that's more than just a table of roads, or not? The answer to that should tell you whether the article should exist or not.

So, if I'm missing something here, please could you expand out the article to tell us why the villages have road networks that are particularly interesting or noteworthy? If there is nothing, then the articles will be removed. Steven (talk) 21:08, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

And since I wrote that, you've added Greystones, which although it is a bit bigger, it's still just a table of roads, and therefore should not exist unless its road network has something interesting about it. What is interesting about this place's network? Steven (talk) 07:30, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
I see you've added a page for Portarlington, and updated Greystones to include some detail. However, there is still nothing to say what's interesting about these places from a roads perspective; essentially if we wanted a wiki containing stub pages for every town and village in Ireland we could import them and save the effort of manually adding them. I've deleted Ballydesmond on that basis, and Portarlington is likely to follow unless you know or can reference anything interesting about it. C2r (talk) 07:13, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Test pages

Hello, if you want to do testing, better to do in your userspace, rather than on the general wiki namespace - convention is to use pages such as User:Midletonperson/Sandbox and User:Midletonperson/Sandbox2 etc. Note as well that it's fine to use templates for test purposes, but make sure that you clear them down when you're done to avoid your test page being inappropriately categorised (I can see you are doing this already when you've finished with a test page, so continue to do that, even where it's in your own userspace.

Merry Christmas! C2r (talk) 11:20, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

New Bridges and Junctions

Hello, thanks for the new bridges and junction pages you've added - I've done a bit of tidying up on them - if you take a look at the history and comments I've added for Ballydowney Roundabout‎, Snave Bridge‎, Ballybofey-Stranorlar Bridge this will help in contributing more in-depth articles. It's important to note that when copying from other SABRE wiki articles (to use as a base) that you remove items that have changed - also feel free to google for more information and reference what you find (while it's not permissible to directly copy from other websites, you can find information and reference it) - e.g. the opening date of the pedestrian bridge at Ballybofey is in a newspaper article. Hope this all makes sense, let me know if not. C2r (talk) 09:09, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

List of Terminal and Intermediate Destinations


The list given on the Wiki is the official Irish Government list within the Traffic Signs Manual Chapter 2. Please don't add places to that list that aren't in the official one.

And as much as I hate "Britishsplaining" to an Irish person, CASTLEBLANEY–Baile Na Lorga is the spelling given in TSM Chapter 2 for the N53, rather than Baile na Lorgan. Your spelling may well be correct, and I'm far from an expert in the Irish language to say the least, but for that list we need to go via the official spelling in the document. Steven (talk) 08:03, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

New Junctions

Hello, Where are you obtaining these junction names from? You're not citing any of them, and of the few I've looked at so far, a few have been entered with the wrong name, which I've updated:

Most are fine though and good work and understanding of the templates. You can google to find more information which you can link to the pages using Template:Link, or cite using Template:Ref.

Also note that if you're creating a junction or a bridge that isn't on an N road, the agency will be the local county or city council and not Transport Infrastructure Ireland - as ever, let me know if you've got any questions C2r (talk) 07:33, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Removal of historical roads from towns/localitles

Hello, Any particular reason you're going through removing the historical roads from the town list pages? Can you go back through and reinstate please, as these are used to link the town with the defunct route number. C2r (talk) 12:29, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

Hidden categories

Hello, Just to note that the text


makes a category hidden, while __HIDDEN__ has no effect :) C2r (talk) 06:39, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

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