A31 Hamburger

[SteveA30]

The Boughton thread reminded me that the HA announced on their site on May 6, that the Canford Bottom rbt at Wimborne bypass, is planned for a conversion to a D2 hamburger. The short D2 with 2 sets of lights, should result in much manic overtaking, especially on green.

At Dorchester, the new widened rbts, with 2 lanes for A35 traffic each way has caused a change of tactics. Some lorries now use the outside lane to prevent overtaking, while cars are in the other lane. Must be fun at peak times.

[A303Chris]

That sounds fun, with drivers trying to get past cavarans knowing especially westbound that this was there last attempt for 15 plus miles to Bere Regis

[RichardA35]

That sounds fun, with drivers trying to get past cavarans knowing especially westbound that this was there last attempt for 15 plus miles to Bere Regis

There are actually several overtaking opportunities for the canny or brave between there and Bere Regis which can often surprise the car being overtaken (all, of course, traffic permitting).
1. between Canford Bottom and Merley where the alignment is straight
2. immediately departing Merley roundabout
3. long straight approaching B3074 Corfe Mullen turn
4. last quarter mile approaching A350 roundabout
5. alongside Charlborough Park (3 or 4 locations)
6. along the straight between Winterborne Zelston and Bere Regis

[M5Lenzar]

Roads where caravans are a problem really need short (½ mile) D2 sections to allow overtaking. The A38 between Wellington and Willand (M5 J26-J27) is a good example of a road that has this provision, though it is of course now virtually un-needed.

[DavidBrown]

Overtaking lanes only really work depending on the levels of slow moving traffic. The NDLR has several overtaking sections, but it also has a fairly large number of slower vehicles, so when you overtake a caravan on a S2+1 stretch, you're quickly on the back of a lorry and have saved no time at all. However, the A37 between Dorchester and Yeovil has a similar number of S2+1 sections, but because the road is quieter and there's no so much HGV's or tourist traffic, it's a dream to drive.

Roads like the NDLR and the A31 should be, IMO, fully D2, though of course that won't happen any time soon!

[SteveA30]

The Charlborough Park section is a regular accident site. The wall has 5 or 6 patches and, at the moment 2 more gaping holes waiting to be bricked up again. Delays due to partial or complete closure after accidents, between A35 and Corfe Mullen, must work out at 2 a month on average. Isn't there some sort of 'trigger' accident figure, covering injury and fatal accidents that if exceeded is supposed to make that piece of road a priority for improvements?

[Richardf]

Whilst its not likely to be in line for upgrade to D2 any time soon, i do think something can be done. Realignment of dangerous sections, widening to WS2 or S2+1 would help the worst sections. Not ideal but it would be a start. Worked well enough for the A37 south of Yeovil.

[RichardA35]

The Charlborough Park section is a regular accident site. The wall has 5 or 6 patches and, at the moment 2 more gaping holes waiting to be bricked up again. Delays due to partial or complete closure after accidents, between A35 and Corfe Mullen, must work out at 2 a month on average. Isn't there some sort of 'trigger' accident figure, covering injury and fatal accidents that if exceeded is supposed to make that piece of road a priority for improvements?

Whilst its not likely to be in line for upgrade to D2 any time soon, i do think something can be done. Realignment of dangerous sections, widening to WS2 or S2+1 would help the worst sections.

But at Charlborough Park the road is straight with good visibility. I would contend that the accidents here are generally due to driver ability rather than something "dangerous" with the road as ~20,000 people each day manage to get up and down there safely enough.

[SteveA30]

20,000 or more people manage to pass safely through blackspots all around the country, it doesn't mean they are not blackspots. Overtaking is probably the main cause, plus the bend at Stag Gate, with the junction right on it.
I think an FOI about 'trigger' accident statistics is in order, unless someone here knows.

[RichardA35]

20,000 or more people manage to pass safely through blackspots all around the country, it doesn't mean they are not blackspots. Overtaking is probably the main cause, plus the bend at Stag Gate, with the junction right on it.
I think an FOI about 'trigger' accident statistics is in order, unless someone here knows.

I agree. My point was that it is the drivers not the road that is dangerous.

[Richardf]

The Charlborough Park section is a regular accident site. The wall has 5 or 6 patches and, at the moment 2 more gaping holes waiting to be bricked up again. Delays due to partial or complete closure after accidents, between A35 and Corfe Mullen, must work out at 2 a month on average. Isn't there some sort of 'trigger' accident figure, covering injury and fatal accidents that if exceeded is supposed to make that piece of road a priority for improvements?

Whilst its not likely to be in line for upgrade to D2 any time soon, i do think something can be done. Realignment of dangerous sections, widening to WS2 or S2+1 would help the worst sections.

But at Charlborough Park the road is straight with good visibility. I would contend that the accidents here are generally due to driver ability rather than something "dangerous" with the road as ~20,000 people each day manage to get up and down there safely enough.

Yes it is straight but also not that wide and quite tight against the wall. Thus when things go wrong there is no margin for error and vehcles collide with the wall. Realignment away from the wall to provide a decent verge and space for crash barriers, to protect the wall as much as road users would be a logical improvement to make here. Make a realigned road here wide enough for safer overtaking and the problem is mostly solved. Doesnt account for the 'Idiot Factor' of course but what road improvement does?

[PeterA5145]

My point was that it is the drivers not the road that is dangerous.

So is this stretch of road a particular magnet for irresponsible drivers? Or is there perhaps a toxic miasma in the vicinity that causes drivers to lose all sense of inhibition?

Or might it be that the physical characteristics of this road make accidents more likely to happen, and more likely to have serious consequences if they do? And if that is the case, isn't it entirely reasonable to describe it as being, relatively speaking, "more dangerous" than other roads?

[RichardA35]

My point was that it is the drivers not the road that is dangerous.

So is this stretch of road a particular magnet for irresponsible drivers? Or is there perhaps a toxic miasma in the vicinity that causes drivers to lose all sense of inhibition?

Or might it be that the physical characteristics of this road make accidents more likely to happen, and more likely to have serious consequences if they do? And if that is the case, isn't it entirely reasonable to describe it as being, relatively speaking, "more dangerous" than other roads?

Peter, the stretch in question is 7.3m wide about a mile long, straight, with excellent forward visibility. So are these are the characteristics of a "dangerous" road?

As A303Chris noted, there are few overtaking opportunities along this stretch of the A35 and this is the longest and straightest. Sadly, from my reading of the newspaper reports poorly judged overtaking has often been cited as a cause of accidents including a recent fatal of a local lad.
There are other adjacent worse aligned sections of the A35 with nowhere near the accident rate of this stretch. The road (to me that is the asphalt, road markings, signage and the alignment) is not inherently dangerous.

[SteveA30]

We are sliding into the usual road engineers/industry chaps v road enthusiasts not in the business arguments again.
It is surely both some drivers and, some roads that are more dangerous than others. This stretch of A31 has 2 long straights by the wall, with a T junction on a bend in the middle of the section. I think some overtake several vehicles before the bend and lose it on the bend at high speed. Drivers.

If the road was dualled and, the junction reduced to left turn off the A31 only, ( a straight line in fact), it would be safer. The Road.

Other accesses would be via the A350 rbt nearby.

I can't do map links but it is the minor road from Sturminster Marshall to the A31, west of the A350. The A31 is straighter than some maps indicate.

[RichardA35]

We are sliding into the usual road engineers/industry chaps v road enthusiasts not in the business arguments again.
It is surely both some drivers and, some roads that are more dangerous than others. This stretch of A31 has 2 long straights by the wall, with a T junction on a bend in the middle of the section. I think some overtake several vehicles before the bend and lose it on the bend at high speed. Drivers.

If the road was dualled and, the junction reduced to left turn off the A31 only, ( a straight line in fact), it would be safer. The Road.

Other accesses would be via the A350 rbt nearby.

I can't do map links but it is the minor road from Sturminster Marshall to the A31, west of the A350. The A31 is straighter than some maps indicate.

Of course had the Stag Gate improvement happened as listed on this written answer, the A31 would have turned northwards along the line of the A350 from the A31 roundabout to reappear on that minor road after performing a western bypass of Sturminster Marshall and would have avoided the Stag Gate stretch entirely. I have a plan of the route somewhere at home.

[SteveA30]

That's more or less in line with the one I built in my head. Mine takes the minor road as a D2 but, arrives at the rbt at its present position, avoiding the need for a new junction with the A350. The old A31 is an exit only westbound off the D2, for local access only and, an w/bnd exit at the Stag Gate end. Right turns handled at the Stag Gate end also, at the start of the D2, where there is still 1 lane, before becoming D2. Simples but then, plans in your head usually are.

[RichardA35]

That's more or less in line with the one I built in my head. Mine takes the minor road as a D2 but, arrives at the rbt at its present position, avoiding the need for a new junction with the A350. The old A31 is an exit only westbound off the D2, for local access only and, an w/bnd exit at the Stag Gate end. Right turns handled at the Stag Gate end also, at the start of the D2, where there is still 1 lane, before becoming D2. Simples but then, plans in your head usually are.

Unfortunately, like any scheme that doesn't bypass people and have the benefit of reducing noise and nuisance for people and the added value for saving time not going through a village or town, the scheme is pretty well unaffordable under current rules as it's all cost and only little benefit. Even in considering what to do about the accident record, the cost of such a major improvement will probably be way out of kilter with the benefits accrued.
(Incidentally, as a bi-product of any improvement here, I'm not sure I like improving the amenity of Charlborough Park as it isn't open to the public and it was they that put the road into its current alignment - perhaps Drax could put its realignment on his parliamentary expenses).

[Helvellyn]

It is surely both some drivers and, some roads that are more dangerous than others.

It's that dangerous driving on some roads is more likely to have unpleasant consequences, and that some roads provide greater scope for dangerous driving than others.

[Richardf]

We are sliding into the usual road engineers/industry chaps v road enthusiasts not in the business arguments again.
It is surely both some drivers and, some roads that are more dangerous than others. This stretch of A31 has 2 long straights by the wall, with a T junction on a bend in the middle of the section. I think some overtake several vehicles before the bend and lose it on the bend at high speed. Drivers.

If the road was dualled and, the junction reduced to left turn off the A31 only, ( a straight line in fact), it would be safer. The Road.

Other accesses would be via the A350 rbt nearby.

I can't do map links but it is the minor road from Sturminster Marshall to the A31, west of the A350. The A31 is straighter than some maps indicate.

Of course had the Stag Gate improvement happened as listed on this written answer, the A31 would have turned northwards along the line of the A350 from the A31 roundabout to reappear on that minor road after performing a western bypass of Sturminster Marshall and would have avoided the Stag Gate stretch entirely. I have a plan of the route somewhere at home.

Fascinating. Hadnt realised that section had had improvements actualy planned. Knew all about the Bere Regis to Red Post improvement from 'Roads to Prosperity' and evidence still on the ground of what was planned there, but nothing else along the A31 but did find it odd that improvement plans only went as far a s Red Post and just stopped. Geoindex borehole records give no indication of any other plans either. Any idea just how far along the plans were before being scrapped?

That 'written answer' also makes interesting reading as to what else was planned along the a31/a35 route. Anybody got any more details on it? Particularly interested in what the improvements were for the A31 through the New Forest as well as the other parts of the a31.

[andrewwoods]

The Bournemouth Echo is reporting that the plans for the Hamburger have been deferred.
http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/9 ... t_on_hold/