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A320Driver wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 08:41
I drove the new A14 from Brampton to M11 for the first time yesterday. One thing that stuck out was the fact that the ERAs are essentially the same as those found on smart motorways, whereas a new AP road would now have lay-bys segregated from the mainline. Therefore, the fact that the signs were changed from blue to green at the last minute would suggest to me a downgrade in the safety standards of a new AP route…
Note how the Emergency Area signs are not the same as the ones on motorways, and the lack of stopped vehicle detection.
They don't have the orange paint you find on ERAs on smart motorways now, I don't know why really as it would have the same benefits.
I don't really agree that this makes the new A14 a "downgrade" from AP standard though. Laybys are more dangerous because people use them routinely, pulling out into traffic at low speeds. The relevant section of A14 is only about 16 miles long, has a service station en route for routine stops (two if you count Brampton), so the ERAs are probably safer as they'll only be used in emergencies.
EpicChef wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 22:41
I think it's a mistake to compare this new stretch with elsewhere on the A14 or indeed any other AP dual carriageway.
In my eyes, it should be measured up against managed motorways.
Agreed. All that separates the two are politics and coloured signs
For the first time I used the new A14 yesterday, both ways. What struck me, particularly on the southbound, was the appalling construction standard of it at the A1 junction. Sudden divergences of the white lining by 5 or 10 degrees, likewise in the surface levelling and changes in vertical curvature, such that at normal speed the suspension was suddenly bottoming out. Going south A1-A14 freeflow there's a complete Z-bend, maybe 40mph max the likes of which would never have made it through a design review a generation ago, let alone that you bridge across the A14, and a few moments later bridge back across it. Presumably done as a Z to make the bridge more perpendicular and cheapen its cost. It looks like the design of a first year university student. But whoever signed off the construction standard with the contractor ? Talk about third world amateurism. Elsewhere on the new road the design and construction are well done. Different contractor or subbie ?
Incidentally, right at the outside of the second part of the Z-bend there's an ERA. Must be the most likely place of all for a high speed out of control to leave the road.
WHBM wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 09:23
For the first time I used the new A14 yesterday, both ways. What struck me, particularly on the southbound, was the appalling construction standard of it at the A1 junction. Sudden divergences of the white lining by 5 or 10 degrees, likewise in the surface levelling and changes in vertical curvature, such that at normal speed the suspension was suddenly bottoming out. Going south A1-A14 freeflow there's a complete Z-bend, maybe 40mph max the likes of which would never have made it through a design review a generation ago, let alone that you bridge across the A14, and a few moments later bridge back across it. Presumably done as a Z to make the bridge more perpendicular and cheapen its cost. It looks like the design of a first year university student. But whoever signed off the construction standard with the contractor ? Talk about third world amateurism. Elsewhere on the new road the design and construction are well done. Different contractor or subbie ?
Incidentally, right at the outside of the second part of the Z-bend there's an ERA. Must be the most likely place of all for a high speed out of control to leave the road.
Blame DMRB for that, it just can't cope with free-flow interchange design. That Z bend is fully compliant with standards - read the blurbs in the current document, anything that isn't a three level roundabout is actively discouraged because of 'landtake' or 'driver confusion', so we're lucky they even did this.
Bryn Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already. She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
WHBM wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 09:23
For the first time I used the new A14 yesterday, both ways. What struck me, particularly on the southbound, was the appalling construction standard of it at the A1 junction. Sudden divergences of the white lining by 5 or 10 degrees, likewise in the surface levelling and changes in vertical curvature, such that at normal speed the suspension was suddenly bottoming out. Going south A1-A14 freeflow there's a complete Z-bend, maybe 40mph max the likes of which would never have made it through a design review a generation ago, let alone that you bridge across the A14, and a few moments later bridge back across it. Presumably done as a Z to make the bridge more perpendicular and cheapen its cost. It looks like the design of a first year university student. But whoever signed off the construction standard with the contractor ? Talk about third world amateurism. Elsewhere on the new road the design and construction are well done. Different contractor or subbie ?
Incidentally, right at the outside of the second part of the Z-bend there's an ERA. Must be the most likely place of all for a high speed out of control to leave the road.
Sorry where is the Z-bend? And where do you bridge across the A14 twice?
WHBM wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 09:23
For the first time I used the new A14 yesterday, both ways. What struck me, particularly on the southbound, was the appalling construction standard of it at the A1 junction. Sudden divergences of the white lining by 5 or 10 degrees, likewise in the surface levelling and changes in vertical curvature, such that at normal speed the suspension was suddenly bottoming out. Going south A1-A14 freeflow there's a complete Z-bend, maybe 40mph max the likes of which would never have made it through a design review a generation ago, let alone that you bridge across the A14, and a few moments later bridge back across it. Presumably done as a Z to make the bridge more perpendicular and cheapen its cost. It looks like the design of a first year university student. But whoever signed off the construction standard with the contractor ? Talk about third world amateurism. Elsewhere on the new road the design and construction are well done. Different contractor or subbie ?
Incidentally, right at the outside of the second part of the Z-bend there's an ERA. Must be the most likely place of all for a high speed out of control to leave the road.
Sorry where is the Z-bend? And where do you bridge across the A14 twice?
(My bold in the quoted text)
I've never done that route through that junction, but looking at it on GSV it doesn't look sharp at all. There is a double bend/reduce speed warning sign on the slip road. The emergency refuge is on an almost straight bit of the slip.
You do cross the A14 twice; under it, then more than a mile later, over it on the slip road.
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WHBM wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 09:23
For the first time I used the new A14 yesterday, both ways. What struck me, particularly on the southbound, was the appalling construction standard of it at the A1 junction. Sudden divergences of the white lining by 5 or 10 degrees, likewise in the surface levelling and changes in vertical curvature, such that at normal speed the suspension was suddenly bottoming out. Going south A1-A14 freeflow there's a complete Z-bend, maybe 40mph max the likes of which would never have made it through a design review a generation ago, let alone that you bridge across the A14, and a few moments later bridge back across it. Presumably done as a Z to make the bridge more perpendicular and cheapen its cost. It looks like the design of a first year university student. But whoever signed off the construction standard with the contractor ? Talk about third world amateurism. Elsewhere on the new road the design and construction are well done. Different contractor or subbie ?
Incidentally, right at the outside of the second part of the Z-bend there's an ERA. Must be the most likely place of all for a high speed out of control to leave the road.
Sorry where is the Z-bend? And where do you bridge across the A14 twice?
(My bold in the quoted text)
I've never done that route through that junction, but looking at it on GSV it doesn't look sharp at all. There is a double bend/reduce speed warning sign on the slip road. The emergency refuge is on an almost straight bit of the slip.
You do cross the A14 twice; under it, then more than a mile later, over it on the slip road.
Oh, yes I get you now!
I can only surmise they wanted to avoid both the A141 roundabout and any weaving from the A141 s/bound on-slip.
Big L wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 08:11
.... The emergency refuge is on an almost straight bit of the slip.
Image getting out of the refuge from a standing start with this view and traffic doing 70.
If you're legitimately in the refuge there is a sizeable chance you will have an AA/RAC or HE or police vehicle to help you. Plus electronic signs back down the slip road.
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Does DMRB have standards for ERA locations yet ? Possibly accounts for that one, and this one likewise on the M25 northern section as well, also nicely on a left-hand bend at a hillbrow, which must be the most restricted view in the whole section.
WHBM wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 10:18
Does DMRB have standards for ERA locations yet ? Possibly accounts for that one, and this one likewise on the M25 northern section as well, also nicely on a left-hand bend at a hillbrow, which must be the most restricted view in the whole section.
Sunil_of_Yoxley wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 10:16
I can only surmise they wanted to avoid both the A141 roundabout and any weaving from the A141 s/bound on-slip.
the answer to this was discussed earlier in the thread, but as it's about a million pages I can't find it either
Anyway, essentially, the original solution was to put the A14 on a new carriageway and leave the A1 on the old carriageway - however, the funding available meant that the junction south of Brampton was originally designed to be really bad, with a 270 degree loop from the A14 to the A1 heading from Cambridge to Alconbury. By swapping the carriageways around in this way, they avoided that and someone came up with a very creative solution for the same cost. However, I agree that the camber seems a bit odd and the whole lot doesn't feel like , say, the sliproads at Ferrybridge where a similar arrangement occurs.
c2R wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 19:11
However, I agree that the camber seems a bit odd and the whole lot doesn't feel like , say, the sliproads at Ferrybridge where a similar arrangement occurs.
I had come through Ferrybridge a couple of hours earlier, but an accident ahead further down the A1 meant I did the whole of the link at about 5mph. However, I do recall from the past that it was a nicely done piece of work. Yes, the camber, the transition curves, the forward sighting, etc at A1/A14 just feels poorly done.
Hdeng16 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 20:59
Most of the ferrybridge links are 50mph limited too though. I think.
They are, but how anyone would propose to carry out enforcement on them stumps me. Advisory limits for the bends, as is often seen elsewhere would seem far more sensible.
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