A91 in Scotland (Primary or Non Primary)
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A91 in Scotland (Primary or Non Primary)
Re: A91 in Scotland (Primary or Non Primary)
Trunk routes in Scotland are easy enough to pin down by finding the right bit of the Traffic Scotland website (over the winter this is easy as the gritting map is there).
So in answer to your question, yes and no. Yes, it was primary, then it wasnt primary, but to be honest, I'm not sure anyone could be certain anymore.
There are also some routes, such as the A921 I think, which the OS changes online from red to green at something as arbitrary as a grid line (this might match a sheet join on printed maps). If I remember correctly, the primary route through Stirling used to follow the A905 from the A9 to the A91, but that was before the A811 was rerouted.
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Re: A91 in Scotland (Primary or Non Primary)
In Wales there are about three primary non-trunk roads, whilst in England there have always been dozens.
Re: A91 in Scotland (Primary or Non Primary)
http://www.owenrudge.net/
Re: A91 in Scotland (Primary or Non Primary)
It's now been completely overshadowed by roads such as the A92 & A90, so there's no longer any need for any part of it to be primary.
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Re: A91 in Scotland (Primary or Non Primary)
Theoretically, as has already been said, this means it's non-primary as the idea is that there are no primary non-trunk roads in Scotland. Whether this is the case of course is another question.
Don't rely too much on how much green you can see on maps and signs as it's possible they haven't moved with the times.
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Re: A91 in Scotland (Primary or Non Primary)
Re: A91 in Scotland (Primary or Non Primary)
This Map gives the current trunk road network, according to Traffic Scotland.
As for the A811, it is predominantly, if not completely signed as primary through Stirling Council area, even the re-routing through Stirling, except that the non primary A81 takes precedence at the short multiplex. However, in West Dunbartonshire, it is mostly signed as non primary through Balloch, and on towards the boundary.
My mission is to travel every road and visit every town, village and hamlet in the British Isles.
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Re: A91 in Scotland (Primary or Non Primary)
Given Stirling Council also thinks the A91 is primary, perhaps the problem lies with Stirling Council?rileyrob wrote:As for the A811, it is predominantly, if not completely signed as primary through Stirling Council area, even the re-routing through Stirling, except that the non primary A81 takes precedence at the short multiplex. However, in West Dunbartonshire, it is mostly signed as non primary through Balloch, and on towards the boundary.
This trunk road sign certainly doesn't think the A811 is primary. And, as of 2016, Clackmannanshire Council don't think the A91 is either (and again, nor do signs on the M90).
Re: the A977, personally I think there could be a case for re-trunking and improving this road, but I don't expect it's overly likely.
http://www.owenrudge.net/
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Re: A91 in Scotland (Primary or Non Primary)
While there are plenty of formerly primary routes in Scotland with a mixture of newer white signs and clearly older green signs, the A91 and A811 are consistently green signed in Stirling and Clackmannanshire. Including many post-1994 signs.
Re: A91 in Scotland (Primary or Non Primary)
https://goo.gl/maps/YrsRvMJg7sH2 - Which also shows a usage of Tay/Forth Bridge in St Andrews (that was another thread i know)
https://goo.gl/maps/xdnTcFMbB4y - Dundee and Edinburgh used as destinations there
https://goo.gl/maps/9czJ37j9nGk - And here but Kincardine Bridge turns up now
Just clicking along through junctions in fife it seems there's a switching between Edinburgh at one sign and FRB at the next
There is of course the odd feeling signs at Melville Lodges
https://goo.gl/maps/AhfoTBSGwPk
Switch back to 2009 and it's a non-primary sign with Blue border, so Fife clearly haven't had it signed as Primary in a long time
However at Gateside (Still in Fife (Just))!!! also note the funny spacing on the (A92); presumably the sign predates the route swap.
THere's also a route confirmation just up the hill that's green.
https://goo.gl/maps/y5g4cE5Vg4r
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Re: A91 in Scotland (Primary or Non Primary)
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Re: A91 in Scotland (Primary or Non Primary)
It reminds me of the A71 changing from primary green to non-primary red on some maps at the border between East Ayrshire and South Lanarkshire. The AA atlases show the A72 between Galashiels and Blyth Bridge in red, similarly the A721 between Blyth Bridge and Carluke and the A73 between Carluke and the M8 are shown as non-primary. Peebles is shown as a non-primary destination.roadphotos wrote:I had decided not to mention about the fact that the A811 is signed as a Non Primary Route (white signs) in the West Dunbartonshire area but Primary (green signs) in the Stirling Council area, thought it would cause even more confusion but as someone has already brought up the subject then it's worth noting that there have been some road atlases that have shown the A811 in Stirling as Primary (coloured green) but the road changed to red (Non Primary) when it crossed the border into West Dunbartonshire. I think it was the Philip's Navigator atlas that showed the A811 changing from green to red on route. Most of the A811 is in the Stirling Council area and they say that the road is a Primary Route so I guess that's why all road atlases show the whole of the A811 as a Primary Route, if the road suddenly changed from green to red on route on maps and atlases in would look rather silly. Interesting that the Trunk Road map of Scotland shows a section of the A80 that's by-passed by the M80 as a Trunk Road. Also the Trunk Road map shows the A91 as a Primary Route, if you zoom in the A91 is shown in green but so is the A915 and A72 so I still can't be sure. I can see what you mean about the Trunk Road going north of the Clackmannanshire Bridge (A876) then heading south to Kincardine (A977). As far as the A91 is concerned I think it depends who you speak to.
Re: A91 in Scotland (Primary or Non Primary)
I think the base map is Google, which is as accurate as any of the Atlases you care to mention.roadphotos wrote: Also the Trunk Road map shows the A91 as a Primary Route, if you zoom in the A91 is shown in green but so is the A915 and A72 so I still can't be sure.
I suspect that the main problem is that the very slow progress in replacing the green signs (or not, Stirling Council) has confused the map producers, who are just as confused as everyone else. But on the other hand, look at that map of the trunk road network, and imagine an atlas that only showed those routes in Green. Scotland would look bereft of good roads.
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Re: A91 in Scotland (Primary or Non Primary)
Re: A91 in Scotland (Primary or Non Primary)
https://goo.gl/maps/LCid4RQbSCH2
And at Higham toll it's was a bit of a missmash in 2012
At the North junction https://goo.gl/maps/vf3amT4eBjH2
Approach from the North non-primary
https://goo.gl/maps/2xbniS2WEPq
At the South Junction https://goo.gl/maps/SdnvrpTvxhv
Yes Fife do like making the cycleways signs point at each other...
The south Route confirmation
https://goo.gl/maps/risXVSoRhkC2
Re: A91 in Scotland (Primary or Non Primary)
It shows all of their roads and the organisations responsible for maintenance, including the DBFO routes.
It also amuses me that they have chosen to number a few of the routes in the Highlands, and the A751, although the A87 label appears to be left from the 1950s, as it looks like it is aligned to the old road across A87/Loch Loyne!
My mission is to travel every road and visit every town, village and hamlet in the British Isles.
I don't like thinking about how badly I am doing.
From the SABRE Wiki: A87/Loch Loyne :
When Thomas Telford's team built their road from Invergarry westwards in the 1810s, it initially just followed Glen Garry and Glen Quoich, before dropping down to the coast at Kinloch Hourn. This route is still highway (although realigned around Loch Quoich), and the longest dead end in the country at something like 24 miles. They also built the road from Invermoriston west past Loch Cluanie and so through Glen Shiel to Lochalsh. A little later they built a link
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Re: A91 in Scotland (Primary or Non Primary)
*cough* M6 DBFO *cough*rileyrob wrote:An Interesting map has appeared on Transport Scotlands Twitter page today: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQNCwf4X0AAfZcx.jpg:large
It shows all of their roads and the organisations responsible for maintenance, including the DBFO routes.
It also amuses me that they have chosen to number a few of the routes in the Highlands, and the A751, although the A87 label appears to be left from the 1950s, as it looks like it is aligned to the old road across A87/Loch Loyne!
From the SABRE Wiki: A87/Loch Loyne :
When Thomas Telford's team built their road from Invergarry westwards in the 1810s, it initially just followed Glen Garry and Glen Quoich, before dropping down to the coast at Kinloch Hourn. This route is still highway (although realigned around Loch Quoich), and the longest dead end in the country at something like 24 miles. They also built the road from Invermoriston west past Loch Cluanie and so through Glen Shiel to Lochalsh. A little later they built a link
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