Asymmetric Signed Routes
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- the cheesecake man
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Asymmetric Signed Routes
Normally the signed routes from A to B and from B to A are the same except for one-way systems etc.
But not always...
If you arrive in Huddersfield on the A629 from Sheffield seeking the A629 to Halifax you are directed to turn left and use the southern side of the inner ring road (passing roads to Oldham and Rochdale on the way)
But if you arrive on the A629 from Halifax seeking the A629 to Sheffield you will also be advised to turn left, hence use the northern side of the inner ring road (passing roads to Bradford and Leeds).
If you are heading north on the M1 following directions to Huddersfield you will not take the A629 from junction 35 nor the A616 from junction 35A nor A61 from junction 36 nor A628 from junction 37. You will leave at junction 38 for the A637, which is the shortest route from the M1 to Huddersfield and joins the A629 in the Huddersfield suburbs.
But what happens if you are in Huddersfield wanting M1 South? Surprise surprise, you will not use the A637 to junction 38, you will take the A629 and A616 to junction 35A!
Why? Are there other examples?
PS Both of these examples involve the A629 and Huddersfield but I think that's a coincidence. But I could be wrong.
But not always...
If you arrive in Huddersfield on the A629 from Sheffield seeking the A629 to Halifax you are directed to turn left and use the southern side of the inner ring road (passing roads to Oldham and Rochdale on the way)
But if you arrive on the A629 from Halifax seeking the A629 to Sheffield you will also be advised to turn left, hence use the northern side of the inner ring road (passing roads to Bradford and Leeds).
If you are heading north on the M1 following directions to Huddersfield you will not take the A629 from junction 35 nor the A616 from junction 35A nor A61 from junction 36 nor A628 from junction 37. You will leave at junction 38 for the A637, which is the shortest route from the M1 to Huddersfield and joins the A629 in the Huddersfield suburbs.
But what happens if you are in Huddersfield wanting M1 South? Surprise surprise, you will not use the A637 to junction 38, you will take the A629 and A616 to junction 35A!
Why? Are there other examples?
PS Both of these examples involve the A629 and Huddersfield but I think that's a coincidence. But I could be wrong.
Re: Asymmetric Signed Routes
Heading to Poole from the Ringwood direction, you are signposted via the A31 to Merley Roundabout then A349 to Holes Bay, but in the other direction the signs direct you via the A3049 and A348.
Also, between Shaftesbury and Blandford, southbound HGVs are signed via the higher unclassified road, in contrary to the A350 in the other direction.
Also, between Shaftesbury and Blandford, southbound HGVs are signed via the higher unclassified road, in contrary to the A350 in the other direction.
Last edited by Peter350 on Fri Aug 27, 2021 15:53, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Asymmetric Signed Routes
Can't really think of an explanation for your examples other than the preferred route changed over time.
An example for near me is between Haywards Heath & Ardingly, although a local route as such I've always been puzzled at why it is sign posted different ways depending on the direction.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.00774 ... 384!8i8192 off the B2028 it is sign posted left to follow Summer Hill Lane / Portsmouth Lane / High Beech Lane / College Road to meet Ardingly back on the B2028.
But heading the other way, Haywards Heath is signposted back along the B2028. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.04852 ... 384!8i8192
What makes it even more odd is that the ADS directs traffic for Turners Hill, South of England Showground (aka Ardingly Showground)& Wakehurst Place via the B2028, even though all of those destinations travel though Ardingly which is shown to be left...
An example for near me is between Haywards Heath & Ardingly, although a local route as such I've always been puzzled at why it is sign posted different ways depending on the direction.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.00774 ... 384!8i8192 off the B2028 it is sign posted left to follow Summer Hill Lane / Portsmouth Lane / High Beech Lane / College Road to meet Ardingly back on the B2028.
But heading the other way, Haywards Heath is signposted back along the B2028. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.04852 ... 384!8i8192
What makes it even more odd is that the ADS directs traffic for Turners Hill, South of England Showground (aka Ardingly Showground)& Wakehurst Place via the B2028, even though all of those destinations travel though Ardingly which is shown to be left...
Re: Asymmetric Signed Routes
Heading North up the A19, https://goo.gl/maps/ymzqG74ykVhT9iew5, heading towards Gateshead takes you via the A1231 / A1 / A184 but towards Newcastle via the Felling Bypass, through Gateshead town centre. Going the opposite direction both are taken along the Felling Bypass.
Imo it's wrong though it would make much more sense even knowing it would be more signage routing people like especially when they're trying to reduce traffic from the Tyne Bridge with the new LEZ etc.
A1231 / A1 - Newcastle (West, North, Centre), Gateshead (South + West)
A184 - Gateshead (Centre + East)
A1058 (Through Tunnel) - Newcastle (East)
Imo it's wrong though it would make much more sense even knowing it would be more signage routing people like especially when they're trying to reduce traffic from the Tyne Bridge with the new LEZ etc.
A1231 / A1 - Newcastle (West, North, Centre), Gateshead (South + West)
A184 - Gateshead (Centre + East)
A1058 (Through Tunnel) - Newcastle (East)
- FleetlinePhil
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Re: Asymmetric Signed Routes
I think the Huddersfield examples may be to reduce the amount of traffic making right turns onto and off the ring road, as I notice the A62 also follows the same pattern as the A629 in directing its through traffic to use the clockwise side. Entries to and exits from the ring road are naturally more straightforward if you use the ring road in a clockwise direction, but the A629 to/from Halifax is a particularly convoluted move if you use the anti-clockwise direction on the ring road.the cheesecake man wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 13:45 Normally the signed routes from A to B and from B to A are the same except for one-way systems etc.
But not always...
If you arrive in Huddersfield on the A629 from Sheffield seeking the A629 to Halifax you are directed to turn left and use the southern side of the inner ring road (passing roads to Oldham and Rochdale on the way)
But if you arrive on the A629 from Halifax seeking the A629 to Sheffield you will also be advised to turn left, hence use the northern side of the inner ring road (passing roads to Bradford and Leeds).
If you are heading north on the M1 following directions to Huddersfield you will not take the A629 from junction 35 nor the A616 from junction 35A nor A61 from junction 36 nor A628 from junction 37. You will leave at junction 38 for the A637, which is the shortest route from the M1 to Huddersfield and joins the A629 in the Huddersfield suburbs.
But what happens if you are in Huddersfield wanting M1 South? Surprise surprise, you will not use the A637 to junction 38, you will take the A629 and A616 to junction 35A!
Why? Are there other examples?
PS Both of these examples involve the A629 and Huddersfield but I think that's a coincidence. But I could be wrong.
Re: Asymmetric Signed Routes
Heading south out of Derby, Stoke traffic is directed to use the A516 but only Derby (West) traffic should use it at the other end.
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- the cheesecake man
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Re: Asymmetric Signed Routes
Those heading north on the A515 from Ashbourne seeking Monyash should turn take this unclassified road. Anyone in Monyash wanting A515 south to Ashbourne should stick to the B5055.
- Gareth Thomas
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Re: Asymmetric Signed Routes
Traffic in Folkestone wanting to go to Canterbury is told to use the A2034 towards the M20, then join the A20 and come off at the next junction for the A260 and follow that towards Canterbury.
Coming the other way, traffic heading towards Folkestone is simply told to stay on the A260/A259 route.
Map of both routes.
Coming the other way, traffic heading towards Folkestone is simply told to stay on the A260/A259 route.
Map of both routes.
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Re: Asymmetric Signed Routes
On the A41 between Wednesbury and Bilston, northbound traffic is told to stay on the A41, whereas southbound traffic is somewhat inexplicably sent on a detour.
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- the cheesecake man
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Re: Asymmetric Signed Routes
Rotherham-Pontefract via Hemsworth: stick to the A6195, don't take the B6273.
Pontefract-Rotherham via Hemsworth: take the B6273.
Pontefract-Rotherham via Hemsworth: take the B6273.
- ellandback
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Re: Asymmetric Signed Routes
Bradford to Harrogate, stay on the A658.
Harrogate to Bradford, don't.
(Indeed, Harrogate to Bradford, take the non-primary route in preference to the primary route that goes to the same place.)
Harrogate to Bradford, don't.
(Indeed, Harrogate to Bradford, take the non-primary route in preference to the primary route that goes to the same place.)
Re: Asymmetric Signed Routes
Not exactly the same but the M1 Southbound through South Yorks and North Notts mentions Mansfield and Chesterfield on RCS and DS signage relentlessly. They're don't appear Northbound anywhere other than the DS signs for the relevant turnoff.
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Re: Asymmetric Signed Routes
It's a long time since I was that way, but in Exeter, signs to Crediton A377 pointed you a different way from ones to Barnstaple A377. Trying to split traffic flow?
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Re: Asymmetric Signed Routes
OT, but ye gods, is there a single correctly designed sign in Leeds?ellandback wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:54 Bradford to Harrogate, stay on the A658.
Harrogate to Bradford, don't.
(Indeed, Harrogate to Bradford, take the non-primary route in preference to the primary route that goes to the same place.)
Chris
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Re: Asymmetric Signed Routes
Signage between Leven and Edinburgh/the Forth Road Bridge via the A92 is odd https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@56.17611 ... 933,12.36z
Coming from the Forth Road Bridge, Leven is signed right here down the A911. It makes sense as a simple route maximising time spent on the 70mph D2 A92, avoiding almost all settlements and making use of fairly straight and fast A911.
Leaving Leven, however, you're signed left here taking you down the A915. This is quite a high quality road too and arguably more direct but it takes you longer to reach the A92 and the A915 gives up just outside Kircaldy and sends you along the A921 to get to the A92, passing housing, industrial estates and through two roundabouts. Queues can form at these.
I don't know why this is - perhaps to spread traffic approaching the A92? The A915 looks as if it is aiming towards the A92 and the A921 junction looks to have passive provision for grade separation - perhaps the routing was done on the assumption that the A915 would eventually have a direct connection to the roundabout or even a free-flow link into the A92 itself, whereas the routing from the A92 roundabouts was done based on the status quo with the assumption that any GSJ project would update them if necessary. I would argue that the route should go via the A911 both ways and tend to go that way myself. I think more housing is being built around the A915 - I wonder if this will lead to all long distance traffic out of Level being sent via the A911 in time.
Coming from the Forth Road Bridge, Leven is signed right here down the A911. It makes sense as a simple route maximising time spent on the 70mph D2 A92, avoiding almost all settlements and making use of fairly straight and fast A911.
Leaving Leven, however, you're signed left here taking you down the A915. This is quite a high quality road too and arguably more direct but it takes you longer to reach the A92 and the A915 gives up just outside Kircaldy and sends you along the A921 to get to the A92, passing housing, industrial estates and through two roundabouts. Queues can form at these.
I don't know why this is - perhaps to spread traffic approaching the A92? The A915 looks as if it is aiming towards the A92 and the A921 junction looks to have passive provision for grade separation - perhaps the routing was done on the assumption that the A915 would eventually have a direct connection to the roundabout or even a free-flow link into the A92 itself, whereas the routing from the A92 roundabouts was done based on the status quo with the assumption that any GSJ project would update them if necessary. I would argue that the route should go via the A911 both ways and tend to go that way myself. I think more housing is being built around the A915 - I wonder if this will lead to all long distance traffic out of Level being sent via the A911 in time.
- ellandback
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