Question about streetlights and terminal speed limit signs (A6055)

[SDA]

This is probably an absolutely bone question, but I have not been able to get a definitive answer, infact I've heard different answers. When asking the normal person on the street, they seem to be generally of the opinion it's NSL.

What would be the speed limit on this stretch of the A6055?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/uH7RVGY6XoxmgqQ67

Now there are streetlights, however all roads leading to it (from all directions) are NSL.
Surely there should be a terminal sign indicating that it is a 30 limit if it was?

North Yorkshire seem to have a number of NSL signs that appear to be terminal before roundabouts, particularly on the A6055, even when the roads leading up to it are NSL.

[Bomag]

Speed limit signing does not look to be compliant with TSM and is therefore not compliant with RTRA 1987 Section 85 and would default to 60 mph/NSL.

I have no idea what the limit is supposed to be.

[SDA]

Thanks. That's good to know. It was an oh flip moment when driving on it, the signs confused me.

[jnty]

We had a contentious thread about this kind of thing a while back but fundamentally the limit is clearly not intended to be 30, the police probably don't think it's 30 and the signage is wrong so securing a conviction would be tough. There have been cases where a 30 sign in the wrong font caused prosecutions to be dropped (although that stretch might not have been streetlit.)

Worth firing a letter to the relevant authority asking them to put repeaters on the lamp posts as obviously by the letter of the law this is at the very least confusing.

[Bryn666]

Interesting that they've gone to great lengths to illuminate the flag sign (not required) but not get basic speed limit signing right...

[SDA]

I'm going to send a letter to the local authority I think.
I'm relieved that it would be quite tough to achieve conviction for going over 30mph on it, as it's evidently not very clear.

[MotorwayGuy]

The general standard of signage in the area is of a poor standard, like this for example. Also, why does this exist?

There is also this section which is lit but has no repeaters. The section of the A6018 on the opposite side of the roundabout also has no repeaters and has a set of NSL terminal signs at the end, but nothing in the other direction.

[paranoid]

Also, why does this exist?

It's to catch those not paying attention (and/or have been into the Services) who are trying to cross the country on the A66 - literally pointing out the straight-ahead road having come over the roundabout from the A66 is not the A66 (it's a local road to Middleton Tyas). The A66 does continue to the east, but you need to go two junctions up the A1(M) first.

[SDA]

Misleading and incorrect signs all around then.
I'm glad it's not just me that thinks this. I was expecting a load of posts criticising me for not being aware of the Highway Code.
The A66 Bridge Road in Darlington is another road that should have repeaters, but doesn't. It has streetlights but is a NSL road.

[SDA]

Received a reply from National Highways on this stretch:

"Thank you for raising a query through FixMyStreet on 28 November 2022.

We appreciate the time you've taken to advise us of it.

All sections of the carriageway at this location are deregulated to the national speed limit.

Whilst there is no specific requirement to provide repeater signs, this will be something that will be reviewed by our road safety team.

Following the review, any new signage recommendations will be considered on any future works to this section of carriageway.

Kind Regards, National Highways"

60mph/NSL

Repeaters maybe considered in the future.

[Chris5156]

"Whilst there is no specific requirement to provide repeater signs, this will be something that will be reviewed by our road safety team."

I'm not 100% sure they've got that right, but if they're considering adding them in the future then perhaps it will get resolved anyway.

[jnty]

"Whilst there is no specific requirement to provide repeater signs, this will be something that will be reviewed by our road safety team."

I'm not 100% sure they've got that right, but if they're considering adding them in the future then perhaps it will get resolved anyway.

Yeah, all my understanding of the rules suggests that, unless it is a special road, repeaters are absolutely required. If they aren't then a lot of roads authorities have wasted an awful lot of money putting repeaters on streetlit sections of clearly NSL roads.

I wonder if this is a stock response to letters about areas where repeaters are not strictly requires but the sender feels that they might be required for some reason.

[JohnnyMo]

A speed limit of 30 mph (48 km/h) generally applies to all roads with street lights (excluding motorways) unless signs show otherwise.

Is it a case where terminal must be signed, but repeaters should be signed. IMHO the word generally here is a get out of doing in clause.

[MotorwayGuy]

It seems to be an oversight due to the fact streetlighting has been added to roads that previously didn't have any, but if that is the case here why are were sets of NSL terminal signs added, insinuating a change of limit?

I've seen the opposite issue arise where streetlighting has been added to a 30mph road but the repeaters haven't been removed.

[jnty]

A speed limit of 30 mph (48 km/h) generally applies to all roads with street lights (excluding motorways) unless signs show otherwise.

Is it a case where terminal must be signed, but repeaters should be signed. IMHO the word generally here is a get out of doing in clause.

The highway code isn't the law - the law says, to the best of my knowledge, that the streetlights make the limit 30. The law also says that terminal signs must be provided. So the authority is failing to communicate the intended speed limit and is doing so in an unlawful way.