Longest wait at traffic lights?

[AndyB]

Signalised roundabouts are different of course because entries are paired so you could be stopped on one off-slip because someone’s just been given a green on the circulation on the other side of the roundabout.

I think a lot more use of MOVA is required, combined with skipping phases where there is no demand so that even if one entry to a junction is resting on red, if there is no conflicting demand (including pedestrian), you should not need to wait longer than the minimum green time on the current green phase plus the intergreen.

[FosseWay]

Certainly as a pedestrian where there is less of a liability, I'm sure we've all crossed junctions where the pedestrian signal has been red but we have judged that it was safe to cross.

Certainly that, but also the behaviour I mentioned above also occurs here: the pedestrian presses the button, the red man continues to show while there's no traffic approaching, and then it goes green (red for traffic) just as the first vehicle for ages approaches, forcing it to stop. If the lights had made use of the current traffic conditions, the pedestrian would have been on their way and no-one would have had to stop at the lights.

[FosseWay]

I think a lot more use of MOVA is required, combined with skipping phases where there is no demand so that even if one entry to a junction is resting on red, if there is no conflicting demand (including pedestrian), you should not need to wait longer than the minimum green time on the current green phase plus the intergreen.

Sometimes you get the opposite issue with on-demand traffic lights, of course: You're approaching, see them change to amber so start to slow, only for them to cycle through amber - red - red & amber - green in quick succession because there is no demand from any other arm. In these cases you have to wonder why it changed to red in the first place. Surely the most sensible solution is to leave the lights on green for whichever direction last had it until someone appears at one of the others and it needs to change?

[traffic-light-man]

Signalised roundabouts are different of course because entries are paired so you could be stopped on one off-slip because someone’s just been given a green on the circulation on the other side of the roundabout.

That's not the case for all roundabouts, of course. Yes, it's one technique that is used, but there's plenty out there that don't work like that.

I think a lot more use of MOVA is required, combined with skipping phases where there is no demand so that even if one entry to a junction is resting on red, if there is no conflicting demand (including pedestrian), you should not need to wait longer than the minimum green time on the current green phase plus the intergreen.

If a site is under VA or MOVA control, it should skip stages depending on lack of demands - both natively make every stage demand dependent, unless of course something has to run to, for example, clear a filter arrow etc. Similarly, you can make stages in fixed time, CLF and UTC demand dependent, though admittedly it'll be more clunky.

While I agree that MOVA could be utilised more in some areas, in others it would arguably be a waste of time installing as you wouldn't necessarily see any benefits over VA if it, say, ran UTC between 06:30 and 20:00. There's also a lot more time and skill that goes into setting up and keeping MOVA operating and performing well, and I think some areas just don't have the capability to be dropping MOVA in everywhere.

Having said that, I've seen brand new isolated VA with SDE sites in some places and I don't really see the advantage of that, especially when you've got to duct out to the SDE loops anyway.

Sometimes you get the opposite issue with on-demand traffic lights, of course: You're approaching, see them change to amber so start to slow, only for them to cycle through amber - red - red & amber - green in quick succession because there is no demand from any other arm. In these cases you have to wonder why it changed to red in the first place. Surely the most sensible solution is to leave the lights on green for whichever direction last had it until someone appears at one of the others and it needs to change?

Leaving a site to run by resting on the last stage called is one option. The other common traditional one is to revert to the main stage, which would normally be the 'main' road.

As for revertive all red, I'm a fan of this in a 30mph or 40mph area. At 30mph, if you just miss the timer expiring and it begins to change, I find that I very rarely have to come to a full stop before it's back at green. As well as being beneficial for users who get a green straight away, it's a good speed control device.

I'm a bit more torn on whether it should be used on a high speed road, especially at a site fitted with VA and SDE. I can see the argument for 'it's no different that a site changing because of a demand on the side road, and drivers should always be expecting the signals to change', but I also think that on a high speed road it's maybe best to revert to the high speed approaches to prevent any unnecessary sudden braking. That's taking a very simplistic scenario where the side roads are notably minor compared to the main road, of course every site has to be judged on its own merits.