You are quite right, but the pre-1648 Duchy of Brabant approximated all three territories.Chris Bertram wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 10:07They do, but the Belgian province of Antwerp (Antwerpen/Anvers) is sandwiched in between.RichardA626 wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 22:15I had noticed both had a Brabant.Vierwielen wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 18:32
You are quite right - the Duchy joined the German Customs Union in 1842, some 29 years before the unification of Germany was complete. It is also interesting to note that Belgium has a province Brabant and the Netherlands has a province Noord-Brabant.
Signposts to destinations over the border
Moderator: Site Management Team
- Vierwielen
- Member
- Posts: 5760
- Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 21:21
- Location: Hampshire
Re: Signposts to destinations over the border
- RichardA626
- Member
- Posts: 7909
- Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 22:19
- Location: Stockport
- Contact:
Re: Signposts to destinations over the border
That makes sense.Vierwielen wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 15:12You are quite right, but the pre-1648 Duchy of Brabant approximated all three territories.Chris Bertram wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 10:07They do, but the Belgian province of Antwerp (Antwerpen/Anvers) is sandwiched in between.
Beware of the trickster on the roof
Re: Signposts to destinations over the border
Murmansk is a major ice free port with a population of over 300,000 so you might be surprised as it is the Russian end of the sea route from Churchill on Hudson Bay and Northern Russia. There is I believe a fair bit of trade with Norway as well as the Russian Naval baseBurns wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 18:42 Norway signs Murmansk on its side of the border. I can't imagine there's much cross border traffic in this quiet corner of the Arctic.
https://goo.gl/maps/DTZ39btuX5rgnq3P8
AIS ship tracking
https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/ho ... 8.8/zoom:5
For a quiet place there are a lot of Nuclear Submarines snooping around the area
Re: Signposts to destinations over the border
Brabant was the core of Burgundy at times, then the 17 provinces Netherlands, Spanish Netherlands, Austrian Netherlands, the last two roughly the same area as modern Belgium which has adapted Brabant's heraldry on a national scale. The title of the Belgian heir to the throne is Duchess of Brabant (duke if male). The Belgian province of Brabant however has been split into three, the provinces of Vlaamse Brabant, Brabant Wallon, and the Brussels Capital Region.RichardA626 wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 21:58That makes sense.Vierwielen wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 15:12You are quite right, but the pre-1648 Duchy of Brabant approximated all three territories.Chris Bertram wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 10:07 They do, but the Belgian province of Antwerp (Antwerpen/Anvers) is sandwiched in between.
There are also two Limburgs between Belgium and the Netherlands.
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
- Vierwielen
- Member
- Posts: 5760
- Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 21:21
- Location: Hampshire
Re: Signposts to destinations over the border
Had the Belgians not revolted in 1830, Dutch politics would have been interesting. During the 19th and earky 20th centuries, parties were split either on confessional grounds (Catholic or Protestant) or on linguistic grounds. Belgium is almost entirely Catholic with a 50:50 French-Dutch split while the Netherlands is almost entirely Dutch speaking with a 50:50 Catholic-Protestant split. Combined the two countries would have had 50% Dutch-speaking Catholics, 25% Dutch-speaking Protestants and 25% French-speaking Catholics.exiled wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 18:29Brabant was the core of Burgundy at times, then the 17 provinces Netherlands, Spanish Netherlands, Austrian Netherlands, the last two roughly the same area as modern Belgium which has adapted Brabant's heraldry on a national scale. The title of the Belgian heir to the throne is Duchess of Brabant (duke if male). The Belgian province of Brabant however has been split into three, the provinces of Vlaamse Brabant, Brabant Wallon, and the Brussels Capital Region.RichardA626 wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 21:58That makes sense.Vierwielen wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 15:12
You are quite right, but the pre-1648 Duchy of Brabant approximated all three territories.
There are also two Limburgs between Belgium and the Netherlands.
Re: Signposts to destinations over the border
Latvia and Lithuania both follow this practice.
Lithuania signs Latvian place names using the Lithuanian followed by the Latvian name. As for the sign to Pskov it is only in Latvian - I did not notice any Cyrillic signage in Riga apart from street signs where the paint over the Russian version of the street name had flaked off. I have been to both the locations in the map links.
- Vierwielen
- Member
- Posts: 5760
- Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 21:21
- Location: Hampshire
Re: Signposts to destinations over the border
This Dutch sign is a truly international - seven cities are mentioned: two Dutch, three Belgian and two German with no indication that the Belgian or German cities are in another country.
-
- Member
- Posts: 473
- Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:13
Re: Signposts to destinations over the border
nowster wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 23:51Erected by the Montserrat Cabal?Ritchie333 wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 19:16 There are plenty of signs in southern France pointing towards "Barcelone".
Re: Signposts to destinations over the border
Only just seeing this for the first time. Big fan of the very top "direction" symbol reduced to the size of an emoji!Chris5156 wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 19:15Interestingly Luxembourg doesn't use the white oval either, as far as I can tell - it just names cities without worrying which country they're in. But then Luxembourg's signs are all over the show in terms of design anyway.Steven wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 18:55If memory serves, so (shockingly, I know) does Liechtenstein.Chris5156 wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 11:37 Some countries use a white oval with the country code inside, which matches the stickers used to identify the nationality of vehicles.
Austria does this, as do Switzerland and Germany. Ukraine's new sign standards do the same but I don't think they're actually in use yet for obvious reasons.
Italy signs "Repubblica di San Marino" in full, but I don't believe it does that with anywhere else, whilst in San Marino it's just the names of cities - again not shockingly as "Italia" would need to appear on pretty much every sign...
Andorra similarly signs "França" and "Espanya"; whilst Spain does sign "Andorra", but it's not completely clear if they mean the country or Andorra la Vella - I suspect it's the latter as they do sign French cities rather than France itself.
Everywhere else I've driven in Europe just uses city and town names in the local language of the sign as far as I can remember.
Greece is a movable feast - in some places it uses the country name (Turkey), in some the name of a city (Bitola, North Macedonia), and in others the very vague "Border Station".
Roads, rails, clouds.
"Change happens slowly. Then all at once"
"Change happens slowly. Then all at once"
Re: Signposts to destinations over the border
Just noticed that the Luxembourg sign does not put the è in Liège, strange given it uses French on its signs and has the umlaut in Saarbruken.Chris5156 wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 19:15Interestingly Luxembourg doesn't use the white oval either, as far as I can tell - it just names cities without worrying which country they're in. But then Luxembourg's signs are all over the show in terms of design anyway.Steven wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 18:55If memory serves, so (shockingly, I know) does Liechtenstein.Chris5156 wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 11:37 Some countries use a white oval with the country code inside, which matches the stickers used to identify the nationality of vehicles.
Austria does this, as do Switzerland and Germany. Ukraine's new sign standards do the same but I don't think they're actually in use yet for obvious reasons.
Italy signs "Repubblica di San Marino" in full, but I don't believe it does that with anywhere else, whilst in San Marino it's just the names of cities - again not shockingly as "Italia" would need to appear on pretty much every sign...
Andorra similarly signs "França" and "Espanya"; whilst Spain does sign "Andorra", but it's not completely clear if they mean the country or Andorra la Vella - I suspect it's the latter as they do sign French cities rather than France itself.
Everywhere else I've driven in Europe just uses city and town names in the local language of the sign as far as I can remember.
Greece is a movable feast - in some places it uses the country name (Turkey), in some the name of a city (Bitola, North Macedonia), and in others the very vague "Border Station".
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
- the cheesecake man
- Member
- Posts: 2486
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 13:21
- Location: Sheffield
Re: Signposts to destinations over the border
Or when studying Robert Browning poetry at schoolChris Bertram wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 21:39 Blimey, how long has it been since Aachen was known as Aix-la-Chapelle in everyday speech in any language? These days it's referred to by that name only in connection with a treaty signed in that city (was it to end the Thirty Years War?) and in celebration of which Handel wrote his Music for the Royal Fireworks.
- Vierwielen
- Member
- Posts: 5760
- Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 21:21
- Location: Hampshire
Re: Signposts to destinations over the border
According to the French Wikipedia it is still Aix-la-Chapelle. I have a sneaky feeling that the name Aachen became more common in everyday English from about the time of the formation of the British Army on the Rhine - after all all the road signs said "Aachen" and ordinary British people (aka squaddies) actually visited the place rather than merely reading about it.Chris Bertram wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 21:39 Blimey, how long has it been since Aachen was known as Aix-la-Chapelle in everyday speech in any language? These days it's referred to by that name only in connection with a treaty signed in that city (was it to end the Thirty Years War?) and in celebration of which Handel wrote his Music for the Royal Fireworks.
Re: Signposts to destinations over the border
I've never driven abroad but I remember the following which I've spotted as a passenger or pedestrian - in Thessalonika in Greece in 1991 I spotted a sign to Sofia in Bulgaria (IIRC it was bi-alphabetical), in Hengelo in the eastern Netherlands in 2007 there was a sign to Munster in Germany. In both instances there was no indication that the destination was in a different country.
Re: Signposts to destinations over the border
Surprising city street sign in Vienna, with directions to three cities in three other countries; Czech, Slovakia and Hungary, while the bicycle route sign to Vienna centre makes it four. Is this a record ?
https://www.google.com/maps/@48.1963241 ... ?entry=ttu
https://www.google.com/maps/@48.1963241 ... ?entry=ttu
Re: Signposts to destinations over the border
You'd need either a small country or a place like Vienna where the borders are quite close by and it has borders close by with several countries.WHBM wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 13:14 Surprising city street sign in Vienna, with directions to three cities in three other countries; Czech, Slovakia and Hungary, while the bicycle route sign to Vienna centre makes it four. Is this a record ?
https://www.google.com/maps/@48.1963241 ... ?entry=ttu
I did find this on the A4 in Luxembourg, showing destinations in Luxembourg, Belgium, France, and Germany.
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
Re: Signposts to destinations over the border
How about this?exiled wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 13:56You'd need either a small country or a place like Vienna where the borders are quite close by and it has borders close by with several countries.WHBM wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 13:14 Surprising city street sign in Vienna, with directions to three cities in three other countries; Czech, Slovakia and Hungary, while the bicycle route sign to Vienna centre makes it four. Is this a record ?
https://www.google.com/maps/@48.1963241 ... ?entry=ttu
I did find this on the A4 in Luxembourg, showing destinations in Luxembourg, Belgium, France, and Germany.
Ljubljana - Slovenia
Trieste - Italy
Villach - Austria
Zagreb - Croatia
Re: Signposts to destinations over the border
Yup, also fits in the small country and close by borders.Owain wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:37How about this?exiled wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 13:56You'd need either a small country or a place like Vienna where the borders are quite close by and it has borders close by with several countries.WHBM wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 13:14 Surprising city street sign in Vienna, with directions to three cities in three other countries; Czech, Slovakia and Hungary, while the bicycle route sign to Vienna centre makes it four. Is this a record ?
https://www.google.com/maps/@48.1963241 ... ?entry=ttu
I did find this on the A4 in Luxembourg, showing destinations in Luxembourg, Belgium, France, and Germany.
Ljubljana - Slovenia
Trieste - Italy
Villach - Austria
Zagreb - Croatia
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
Re: Signposts to destinations over the border
Now I want to go on holiday!exiled wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:41Yup, also fits in the small country and close by borders.Owain wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:37How about this?
Ljubljana - Slovenia
Trieste - Italy
Villach - Austria
Zagreb - Croatia
Re: Signposts to destinations over the border
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
- Chris Bertram
- Member
- Posts: 15833
- Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
- Location: Birmingham, England
Re: Signposts to destinations over the border
I love how the Slovene name for Trieste has absolutely no vowels, however they may be defined.Owain wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:37How about this?exiled wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 13:56You'd need either a small country or a place like Vienna where the borders are quite close by and it has borders close by with several countries.WHBM wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 13:14 Surprising city street sign in Vienna, with directions to three cities in three other countries; Czech, Slovakia and Hungary, while the bicycle route sign to Vienna centre makes it four. Is this a record ?
https://www.google.com/maps/@48.1963241 ... ?entry=ttu
I did find this on the A4 in Luxembourg, showing destinations in Luxembourg, Belgium, France, and Germany.
Ljubljana - Slovenia
Trieste - Italy
Villach - Austria
Zagreb - Croatia
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!